Speaker 1 Yes, all right, let's call the meeting to order, stand for the pledge, please.

Speaker 2 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Speaker 1 Welcome to a meeting of the Stamford Planning Commission. If you have a matter to discuss that is not included on the agenda, you may do so by addressing the chairperson, stating your name and address. Visitors are welcome, and we allow five minutes for comments per visitor and 15 minutes per topic. Discussions will be held in a calm and respectful manner. Please note that all meetings are recorded and posted on YouTube, whether it be any adding or removing of items from the agenda, or any adjustments or changing the order. Thank you.

Speaker 3 Okay, so let's move down to discussion first.

Speaker 4 Go ahead, do all your stuff. Okay.

Speaker 5 Okay, we're back. I feel like it's been a while, because I think we haven't seen you all since the May event. So I think we wanted to do a couple things. Well, first of all, I just picked up the physical surveys. Lori said she, Lori collected them all. And it sounds like Jeff. I counted them, and there are 28 physical responses and 25 online. So that's 53 total, which I think is pretty good for, you know, good response rate.

Speaker 4 Kurt said we were going to get zero.

Speaker 5 Definitely. Kurt, did you put in yours?

Speaker 6 So we'll do some, like, analysis, but what I'll also do is send you, like, a raw spreadsheet of the raw data. Because I know we had a discussion about what happened to the, like, the last survey that the town put out in possibly 2011, we're not sure, we're not sure who, who took the, who had the data there, so I will make sure that there, we have a spreadsheet of that, like, raw response data, and I'll send that to Lisa, but I'll also send it to Lori, too, so that she can have it, like, as a copy in the town records, so, like, you know, years from now that you have that to refer to.

Speaker 5 But then we'll also do... You know, some analysis of it as well, and I think we'll want to do that probably sometime in the fall to just kind of recap the community engagement and pick up on some of the things we want to start talking about tonight.

Speaker 7 Lori was our clerk then, when we did the last survey.

Speaker 1 She didn't know, though, I asked her. She didn't. Yeah, she was a clerk then.

Speaker 5 Yeah, we didn't have any records of ECRC of the data either, so...

Speaker 1 It's lost to time. It's lost to time.

Speaker 5 So, that's why, before even doing any, like, analysis, I'll just send out, like, the raw, like, response data to you all to make sure that you've got that. But, so, tonight, I think we wanted to talk about, start the conversation on a number of things, one of them being, well, first I'll just kind of say the three kind of, like, large areas we wanted to talk about that we can maybe get into it in the end. What you both want to talk about. But, one of the things we wanted to talk about is doing any kind of follow-up meeting or engagement on natural resources, conservation, and just conservation planning in general. Because that was obviously a really big theme that came up in the meeting and, you know, walking to our visioning meeting that we had. And just from, like, some of my occasional scans of the offline data, that was definitely, like, a top priority. for people but you know just wondering if there is any interest from the Planning Commission on digging into that a little bit at like another Planning Commission meeting in you know sometime maybe in August whether it would be like having a guest speaker from a conservation related organization come in and talk about you know best practices for conservation planning in your town plan and potentially bylaws as well or if it's you know if you wanted to maybe invite like try and get some more you know members of the public and kind of you know advertise the meeting and have some you know facilitated discussion about natural resource and conservation planning in Stamford and just see if there's any like appetite interest in you know doing some additional like discussion about that either in a public meeting forum or having a meeting

Speaker 8 are there actionable I mean pretty much feel like we all agree that conservation is important and I think we all agree that water and land management and wetlands and all of that but beyond that is there something actionable that someone can come here and describe for us because otherwise I feel like we're just preaching to the converted

Speaker 4 yeah except I mean you know we brought up we brought up we brought up multiple times water and so water is an obviously a critical resource that we know that we have to protect well how do you protect water likely probably with zoning and how are you how are you going to set up how are you going to look at different zoning areas in town if you don't know where the water is so is there a

Speaker 8 person who knows that besides Kurt

Speaker 9 you have to pay I would imagine for a professional opinion to say the water is there or there I can tell you generally where it is tier 3 identified a good chunk of it if you look at the maps basically what it was all about

Speaker 4 right so we did see that I mean I saw I saw water resources up off of east road that I've never seen before where? these most recent up off of east road

Speaker 10 road that i've never seen before i knew that was a source but i was it's not it's not a source if

Speaker 9 you think the whole community as a whole because most of that flows right into the river right there and goes downstream so it's not accessible from that side of the stream to this side but there's always been water up there on that whole range it's ledged

Speaker 4 okay so are are our zoning districts do they consider water resources

Speaker 9 i feel like they don't so the the very smart with all that is that who's the professional that declares all this stuff in-house right without hiring someone at a major expense

Speaker 9 who's going to sit here and say i'm the professional that's going to let you know that the water is here and you know zone around that

Speaker 4 well that should be yours we have the regional planning commission

Speaker 9 they can offer maps and things of that nature but is it a free is it a free of charge professional medical maintenance surveyor water probably highly unlikely i mean if you wanted to have

Speaker 5 you to protect professional like water resources person come in like a consultant who has a like special focus in that area beyond like our planning expertise then probably yes we'd have to pay for that but we do um have a number of like there are a number of statewide tools like there's a natural resources atlas um looking at san francisco to make sure i get the name right because it's more familiar with it than me um and you know so there's like that tool at the state level the natural resources atlas which is i believe is a mapping tool looking at different natural resources and um there's like the file finder tool which is also a mapping based tool that the state has with like state data that they collect but then could also be supplemented by you know community knowledge that there's like something that's not on the state maps that you know is like important in stamford so i wonder like if the conversation like it seems like maybe there's more interest in diving into this in the context of your land use regulations or your bylaws um and i don't know if i'm wrong but it seems like maybe there's like interest

Speaker 6 in really digging into that topic as you get working into that in which case um you know you could don't necessarily have to have another meeting or conversation on it right now at this stage if you don't feel ready or like feel like it's valuable if it's something you want to revisit you know at a future point when you're you know at a different point in working on your bylaws i just know there's a lot of general discussion about it at the may 30th event um and we were just wondering if you wanted to dig into that a little bit deeper with like specific action items or you know policies uh other than some of the you know general topics that were raised um and just

Speaker 5 kind of wanted to see if there was any interest on your part in exploring this topic further at another meeting but um for the in the purpose for the purposes of the town plan but if you're like no i think this is really going to be an issue that we want to like identify and you know dig into the specifics of natural resource protection and water research in particular protection in stamford when

Speaker 11 you're doing your bylaws that maybe we don't i mean won't it be part of writing the plan though

Speaker 12 wouldn't we need to know that ahead yeah yeah so as much as everyone hates like 250 when that came

Speaker 9 about it had language in there for elevation and slow so the best way to do that is to go to the west of my knowledge that whole range over there is protected by a slope which is greater than 25 and the water that would come up you know probably northwest of where intense property is out of there is protected by elevation as you get farther up into stamford like the north northwestern corner of stamford pushing towards woodford but it doesn't hurt to look into it and what about the

Speaker 13 center of town in the clayton that area so hydrology is a funny thing that people are just

Speaker 9 starting to understand so you can make things a little bit easier to understand but i think it's one spot that you find you may dig in another and strike a lot of veins and it affects water elsewhere it's hard to say where all that flow is without some kind of professional assessments

Speaker 4 of it all i just feel like we need a plan because eventually the town is going to need water sure at

Speaker 10 some point the town's going to need water well we can start by stop bringing off all the wetlands

Speaker 9 that we have right stop filling in the wetlands stop elevating houses and wetlands yeah that would be a major start i mean there's hardly any water in the river right now just running quite a bit the other day it's a circle we're running out of ground water there's a thing called the hyperhead exchange surface water groundwater river water are all one and the same they in fact borrow or steal from each other constantly all right so when you start doing mucking around in the wetlands and stuff they're definitely affecting flow and it may seem like a small thing if you just do it in your yard but if everybody's doing it it has a cumulative effect and yeah we're trying out big time

Speaker 14 who's been messing with the wetlands i'm curious here in town who's been messing with the wetlands

Speaker 9 well because all the time people culvert them off that's a conditional use permit that's never gotten by anybody um people fill them in they they drain their yards and we've had it all over the

Speaker 9 place i don't have a specific case but there's been houses built in the flood in the corridor

Speaker 4 the last five years we have we have i remember being in a meeting and there was an argument over whether houses should be able to be built in the river corridor and it was stated that the town of stamford took the path of least resistance and it's totally completely fine to just mound up a thing

Speaker 13 well i'm just telling you that's what was said at the meeting it's not the town

Speaker 14 the state allows it and yeah we had a very lengthy discussion about before any septic permits are issued the engineers should be looking at regulations and we've got a big old x in river corridors you can't build you can put a septic system in there but i'm not good i can't give a permit cba should not be giving a permit the state should not be giving a permit we are mapped period you don't go by the rest of the flood hazard you know they're their own the Roman numerals act you know in that section you know you don't even look beyond Oh Stamford's map but but yeah the engineers are not looking at that so you've got people who are out just getting permits thinking they can build and they can't

Speaker 9 so the state at that point would probably need to force somebody in to listen to it I mean in case I didn't quite right now just look out west they're a lot of trouble and you don't think it's gonna happen here bullshit they're all gonna come this way where you can figure out a little all right it's already happening now that this population we're running out of water that's it we can push this stuff down the line as long as we want but that fact will remain I ran out of water in the last two years yeah Mr. John it's never ever never happened before two years yeah it's drier than it's ever been it's not getting so much hotter anymore

Speaker 8 all right so we'd be interested she dug a pond and that affected your water I don't know that

Speaker 9 so the conservation commission minutes they've been looking at the water resources I don't know how far they've gone with it

Speaker 1 that's been going on for a few years like when we were on it it was still the topic I don't think it's progressing much

Speaker 9 light a fire maybe they think it's on that I'm not doing that

Speaker 1 I'm touching that one

Speaker 9 I mean it would be a viable path for an agency like that

Speaker 1 yeah yeah is that something we want BCRC to maybe provide us with a steeper

Speaker 8 I mean if it would help us definitely if it would help us you know as Pam is saying if it would help us in terms of I mean both the town plan and the bylaws to just have a clearer

Speaker 1 bylaws leads that the the town plan leads bylaws

Speaker 15 exactly

Speaker 1 to starting it

Speaker 8 exactly

Speaker 7 it's kind of the reason why I invited the person from the state last last yeah she was good right she was awesome and I'm glad we did that because now they have a permanent group back last year they had taps constantly so now they have a core group core director and everything is good to go but again Deb will tell you from one part of a river to 100 feet above if anybody's anywhere near the river we're gonna have to have them come down and evaluate it and look before she could sign off on it or anybody else

Speaker 14 like I would say say the river is moved if the river is moved then I'd have to talk but you know I look at this map on the lane you know this place on the lane they have oke They have in the description, build your dream home. I called the realtor and I said, you better be very careful what you put out for the public.

Speaker 8 It says that on the app?

Speaker 14 Oh, yeah, build your dream home.

Speaker 9 Could that be enforced somehow now that it's going through an exchange? What do you mean? It's obviously going to be sold to somebody else. It's an illegal, it's an illegal structure.

Speaker 14 It's unfortunate that you can't do anything about that. They can sell the structure as it is. But they can't build anything. So if they take that thing away and they say, I want to build my own here, even though it's got a septic design, you cannot build it.

Speaker 9 I don't even think they have the distance from the road if you had the river corridor in the back and the road front.

Speaker 14 It's got about 20 feet from the side of the road.

Speaker 7 If it's existing, there's nothing to do with it. You can't build any more on it. It's noncompliant.

Speaker 8 And is there some, this communication that you're describing, or lack of communication from... engineers looking at something, and then, you know, people think they have a permit, and then... Is there some way to, like, establish a line of communication when someone...

Speaker 14 We've been looking at the state regulations, and the state regulations say 50 feet from the bank. So they go in 50 feet, and that's a state regulation. But individual municipalities can be more restrictive. They're more restrictive than that, like we are. So our little grid we have there, you cannot build in the water, river corridor, whereas somewhere else you might be able to.

Speaker 1 I mean, it doesn't seem ethical that the builders, that they know that. No, it's not.

Speaker 14 Of course. It is not. And that's the conversation we had with the river.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 14 I apologize. Was it Jessica?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 16 Jessica.

Speaker 17 So you did find that discussion valuable?

Speaker 4 Okay. So what do you think? What do you think? What do you think that you could offer us based on our concerns?

Speaker 5 Yeah, I think... Thank you for articulating that, Pam. Because I think that meeting that you had with the person, Jessica, from the rivers program, is kind of what got us thinking about maybe if that went well, if you had value, like thinking about doing something similar on a natural resources topic, and it sounds like water resources. Is kind of, from what I'm hearing, seems to be like the, you know, big issue that, you know, you're concerned about in terms of larger natural resource conservation. And so just trying to drill down on like, seems like water resource protection is of, you know, concern as well as like wetlands. Yes.

Speaker 6 And so if we were able to identify somebody, you know, at the state, you know, most likely... I'm sure if someone from a state or even like a natural resources advocacy group in the state would be able to...

Speaker 1 Yeah, you can get back to us. Yeah.

Speaker 18 We'll do some research and ask.

Speaker 7 It might be an idea just to contact Jessica. She's probably got the...

Speaker 18 Yeah. Yeah. Like the next person for... Right. Or right at the Chalmers.

Speaker 7 So her boss is the director of the whole... There's different agencies and... I wonder how...

Speaker 14 So that's the one you were supposed to call. I mean, it's the same... You can make the same argument for, you know, overshadowing and everything. Yes. You have... Yes, we want more homes. That's how we survive. Taxes. That's it. But what you build up there is affecting like your home or a lot of the other properties in the valley. Sure, you get... I mean, we have to dig 600 feet. But 600 feet might be taking away from you.

Speaker 1 Right. But you like them.

Speaker 14 Exactly. So I'm just saying, you know, we're up there almost 2,000... Well, 1,900 feet. But 600 down maybe... So you don't know. So you have all these lots and if you start building and building...

Speaker 4 There's a limited... There's a limited... There's a limited resource. And so the town needs to manage the situation if they care about the long-term, you know, wellness of everyone in the town. That exists now. Which is obviously why you're planning. I mean, I... Again, I looked at those maps at our last meeting and I was just like, okay, so explain to me why the zoning... The zoning is the same right here where we're sitting as it is at the top of...

Speaker 9 Because everything was trying to be put into a square box. Right. You didn't want to step on anyone's clothes up there because you had the right to do this. Yeah, but... You tried to minimize all that. In order to do it right, you would really have a whole bunch of circles.

Speaker 7 I think there was a lack of understanding, too.

Speaker 9 And we gave back a bunch of roads that would be very helpful.

Speaker 19 So... Gave back? Yeah, they gave them back to the president. To... Yeah, we got one.

Speaker 9 So, for example, there was a road that used to go from Fort Jack all the way up to Acadia, right? Like, right through the back behind us all. Now, that's higher out of the river elevation, right? But we gave that road back. So now you would need a whole series of private roads to access that.

Speaker 20 Wow.

Speaker 9 Well, it basically... I mean, it runs up through Joe's Sandbank and all through there. Yeah. But basically, that bridge that's elevated up and out of the river, all that should have been... On the path. On the path. I mean, at least access to it at some point. But... There's other roads in town.

Speaker 4 So, but the point is, again, there's always the push and pull between property rights, ownership rights, and zoning. But you have to try to make some attempt, if you're trying to protect the water resources, to adjust the zoning. Like, hey, if there was going to be a development... I mean, I could think of multiple places in town. Where it might be totally fine to have a development. But then, most of the town, it is not totally fine. And they want large lots.

Speaker 9 Just look at a map. Look at an elevation map. Watch where water runs off. And you'll see the spots that would be better from a selfish standpoint. We don't care what the water is like in Maidens Town or in Malmau or anywhere else. Then there's places. But it doesn't make any sense because it's so disconnected from what's already existing. So, in a lot of ways, the mountains... So, for example, Rispy Branch does. It would take a lot of money to get in there for infrastructure. But all the water goes the other direction. So, it wouldn't really affect anything in town. Le Cher Road runs off to the Cargill State Park.

Speaker 9 It doesn't come into the valley. The high end of it does. It comes into the Rory Road and runs off to the valley. I mean, that's less... But they're just not reasonable places to have large... Lots of development unless they're going to have, like, a second center of town. But just in this strip, I mentioned that whole elevation. That's just higher. It's on the same elevation as East Road back there. If that just continued all the way north through town, which is not going to happen now. I mean, you'd have to take private road development. Who owns it now? The land out of the flood zone. A lot of different people own it. It's just... It goes to the land. I don't know what the elevation is, but it's, like, 1,300 feet or something. Not 1,200 feet up out of the valley. But you're just not going to lay the town like that. Sorry. Lay it out.

Speaker 5 So, I think we'll put our heads together, and we can also reach out to Jessica as well and see if she has any recommendations. But also put our heads together on some, you know, potential people that might be helpful for you to have at your meeting and maybe... You know, see if we can get somebody to come to one of your August, maybe, planning commission meetings, potentially. And, you know, of course, we can't let you know who it was. And just, I think, you know, this kind of segues, I think, into, like, the other kind of topic we wanted to start the conversation on tonight, which we aren't expecting a decision on, is about, you know, like, structuring the town plan based on, you know, the... You know, the priorities that you have identified and that, you know, we have from the public input, which, you know, I haven't fully delved into, like, the surveys and stuff, so I don't have the complete picture of what... And, obviously, we didn't reach every single resident in Stamford, although it would have been nice. Well, maybe we did through the mail, and they just didn't follow, which would be nice. But, you know, thinking about how you want the structure of the plan to, you know, kind of reflect the priorities of the town. And also... And also... Because, you know, I know you're working on your bylaws in the midst of working on them right now. Okay. And with... And I know it seems like you have a lot, potentially, that you might want to do with your bylaws, and so I think that's why it's important to have the conceptual discussions now, and then, you know, anything that you want, you know, to be actualized in your bylaws should have, you know, strong policy statements in the town plan. So, it's related to the protection of water resources and... You know, any natural resources... Just, you know, this applies to all elements of the plan, but, you know, going off of, you know, your concerns about water resources, like, there should be, you know, some clear

Speaker 21 policy statements on, you know, the town, on the protection of, you know, water resources

Speaker 6 and whatnot, that that should be put into action through your laborations.

Speaker 5 And so, to that end, I just wanted to have... I printed out the table of contents for your Courage Town Plan right now, and I've got some copies for all of you just to start thinking about. I'll just line up my notes on it.

Speaker 8 Thank you. Thank you, Allie.

Speaker 7 Allie, if you still have that June 8th agenda, Jessica's name, contact information on that. If you still have the agenda that we have for June 8th.

Speaker 5 Oh, it has Jessica's information? Okay, I can find it online, and also, I know my coworker, Dara. I was there that night, too, so she's got her information as well. But, yeah, so basically, this is your current table of contents as it currently stands, and we really just wanted to get you all here thinking about if you want to use the town plan update that we're doing right now or, you know, about to really embark on the meat of it as an opportunity to restructure the town plan as it currently exists. You know, there's a lot of ways you can structure it, you know, news holidays. You can do it all sorts of different ways. You know, some just do it in the order that the, you know, like, do chapters according to the required statutory element of the municipal plan and do it in the order that it's listed in statute. Some do, like, thematic groupings, like, where they have, you know, a section that's around a specific theme, and then they've got, like, subchapters within that. I'm not quite sure how this current, how this structure of your current town plan came about. Because it doesn't quite, like, it doesn't go in, like, the order of statute or anything,

Speaker 6 so I'm not sure how this came about. I think Jim Sullivan might have been the primary person from BCRC working with you all to update the town plan, so.

Speaker 9 Also, we came from the town plan before that.

Speaker 22 Okay.

Speaker 6 So, you might just, so just, yeah.

Speaker 5 So, you know, so the structure and, of course, the content, but, you know, just looking at the structure to start with, it can be modified. It can be modified based on your priorities and based on the community's priorities. So, like, for example, you could move up the natural, scenic, and historic resources. That could be the first thing after the, you know, introduction, rather than having it be economic development. I thought that was kind of interesting that it started with economic development as the first, like, content-based chapter, because not that it's not important, but it seems like in all of the conversations we've had that natural resources has emerged as a lot of support.

Speaker 9 I feel like some districts was a hot topic at the time, so it may have been generated.

Speaker 4 Maybe, okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 But it is all over the place.

Speaker 4 And I don't, I mean, I guess I'm not, I don't advocate the idea that, oh, we're just, we should just go along and just copy whatever's always been done. I mean, I feel like if you're going to do it, you should look at it and you should say, okay, whatever is not the way we want it, we should fix it.

Speaker 9 A lot of it is the same.

Speaker 5 Yeah, I mean, I think we decided, we thought that, you know, since we're already going to be taking a look at the document, it might be, you know, a good idea to consider changing the structure if we want to. You don't have to. It can stay.

Speaker 1 No, this is too willy-nilly.

Speaker 21 It can stay structured.

Speaker 1 I like the idea of thematic myself, like putting, like, land use, which is a mere natural scenic resources here, but, like, putting, like, the land stuff together, the people stuff together. To me, that would be a little better.

Speaker 5 Yeah. Sometimes, like, with some of the towns we've done that for, we've, like, kind of finalized the thematic grouping based on, like, people's input. And, but, yeah, I think that's becoming, like, something more common. We've seen where towns want to kind of organize things thematically and group certain.

Speaker 1 It makes sense if you're reading it. If you're talking about land, you want to kind of keep reading about land. You don't want to skip to economic and then go back.

Speaker 5 Yeah. So, again, we're not expecting you to have a decision tonight that, like, here is the outline that is finalized. Yeah. But I think we just wanted to start it now so that when we come back to you in a couple of months to, you know, give a, you know, kind of summarize the, you know, engagement results, the survey results and everything, and start, like, you know, talking about the drafting process, that you will have some time to think about the structure as well. Because I think that's, you know, typically, well, as, you know, when we start the process of, you know, actually, like, going through and working on the drafting process, we're going to have some time to think about the draft and working on the document is helpful to have a sense of the structure. And so, just giving this to you now and putting the thought in your head to start when you're thinking about how you might want to structure the new plant going forward. And also something, you know, to think about as well is how you want to structure the responsibility of us as BCRC versus you all. You know, we've done it a couple of ways with a couple of municipalities where some municipalities, like, that we've worked with recently have specifically asked us to, like, write the narrative or the content of the chapter, if you will, that's a lot of, like, data describing current conditions and, you know, data trends and that sort of thing. And then leaving placeholder for the planning commission to draft policy statements or the list of actions, goals, policies that typically come at the end of a chapter. And so, we've done that recently and, you know, some times we've done it before where we've drafted something, like, fully complete with, you know, suggested policy language and action items and goals for them to then respond to and, you know, make their own changes and that sort of thing. So, I think just really, again, we don't have to have an answer on this tonight either, is how you envision our goal versus yours.

Speaker 4 So, I feel like, I feel like what we want, I mean, obviously, Stamford is a very independent town, very independent people, so just the mere mention of you just writing it for us and, you know, asking us what we think is probably not going to sit well with anyone. That being said, obviously, we would like to take advantage of, and we help you with that, and we hope that you would be able to provide us to make this, you know, less cumbersome on the board.

Speaker 14 I would agree. It would take, it would probably take two meetings to go through one chapter. Right.

Speaker 4 So, we do, we, I mean, I feel like we do need help if we want, if we want to come up with the best finished product, but the best finished product is one that is going to have, you know, Stamford residents' fingers all over it. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and to be, to be our goal, and to reflect the values of the community.

Speaker 1 It's better than I do. I appreciate the expertise. It's better than one, Kurt.

Speaker 23 Yeah, I hear you.

Speaker 1 I do appreciate the expertise BCRC can bring with, like, crunching the numbers and the language for presenting data. I'm not an expert in writing language like that, so.

Speaker 9 And looking at the... And looking at the legal, at the laws. Yes. We need that.

Speaker 8 Yes. Absolutely. Yes.

Speaker 5 Yeah, because I think a lot of the chapters are, you know, going, are, like, describing, like, how, describing current conditions in the town, describing, like, data trends, you know, like, population demographics. Right.

Speaker 24 It is what it is.

Speaker 5 You know, economic development, you know, mapping resources, and that sort of thing. And then, typically, and I think your plan does this as well, that at the end of each chapter is the list of, like... Policies, goals, and action items. And so, again, what we just did with the town that we're finishing up a project with, Old Bennington, Village of Old Bennington, is, like, we wrote the, again, the narrative, like, the content of the chapters, and then left, like, placeholder at the end for them to add in the policies, action items, goals.

Speaker 8 So, maybe something that's like that, except that we also can fiddle around with whatever you've done in terms of narrative, you know? So, it's not just, like, this is set in stone, and now it's our space.

Speaker 18 And it's not for them either. Like, we just, we've drafted, and then now we're in the middle of the editing process, too. But I agree that even that model might not be quite the right fit for Stamford, and so maybe there's a way where we... kind of put the data and sort of legal information in bullet points, and then some combination of playing commission members, put it into narrative, or something, like, we can figure out, or, like, maybe you can spend time at a future meeting talking about what the right combination is. And, of course, at the end of the day, it's always your document, and so it's really yours

Speaker 5 to decide what it says. And I think, like, that's why... that's why we want to start the conversation now, because, again, when we come back in a couple of months, and we'll do, like, a brief presentation about the, you know, engagement results, and sort of the analysis of the themes, I imagine we'll probably see a lot about natural resources, but, you know, there might be some other things in there that are surprising, because we got a good amount of survey responses, I think, more than some people expected, so there might be some interesting insights from members of the public in there, as well. But then we'll, at that time, we'll want to revisit this conversation about the structure, and the, you know, kind of drafting responsibility.

Speaker 1 So, in a couple months, you think?

Speaker 5 Yeah, I would say maybe, like... September? Yeah, like, September, maybe. That's not a good... We have to wait until September. I'm chomping at the bit to get the results. I really want to see the results, like, draft results. You're going to share the raw...

Speaker 5 Oh, yeah, I'm going to share the raw data of the survey and everything, like, hopefully within the next few days. Okay. But... Yeah, I'm dying to see it, too. Once... Yeah, once I take a look at the... Once I, like, put it... Input the, you know, paper. The surveys that...

Speaker 1 Are you going to have to sit and...

Speaker 5 Yeah, yeah. But it won't... It doesn't take long.

Speaker 1 Keep taking the survey over and over.

Speaker 5 And then, yeah, so I will give... And then I'll, like, I'll export that into a spreadsheet, and I'll... So, I'll share that within the next few days. So, you'll have that at your disposal to take a look at, you know, very shortly. But we'll want to do, like, a little bit more, like, analysis into the data. And... And, you know, just kind of present on, you know, some of the, like, themes that have come up and kind of set the stage for the drafting. So, we kind of want to plant the seed now on a couple of things, and then, you know, come back in, you know, early... End of August, early September.

Speaker 5 And then what, you know, we might also be back in August with the guest speaker at one of your meetings. So, you will still be seeing a lot of us.

Speaker 9 There's also people... People who are understanding the natural resource question, because preservation of natural resources is much different than extraction of natural resources. Oh, yes. I'm just curious. Just curious.

Speaker 8 Yeah. And, I mean, I think, you know, as this is being... As the responses are being compiled and analyzed and all of that, I think it would be good for us to actually dive into this... Yeah. What this... You know, I mean, even before too much by-law stuff, so that we know how to then... Look at it. Look at it. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. And talk about it all.

Speaker 5 And, you know, also, like, other considerations if you feel strongly about, like, maps and, you know, images and stuff. Right now, your maps are just integrated throughout the plan. Some plans of other municipalities have them all at the end in one place for a referral. You know, I'm just, like, looking through some of the maps and seeing if there's anything of your... Like, refreshing myself on your current plan earlier today, a number of the maps at least seem kind of, like, low resolution on the document. It's also... They're a little bit... Yes. Like, that's... It's okay. It's, like, the way... Oh, good. You know, other maps that have, like, a... Hopefully, like, a clearer resolution. But, like, you know, just... It's dramatic.

Speaker 25 You know?

Speaker 6 Things like that that, like, you know, if you like the way the maps are on the text right now or not... I do.

Speaker 8 I do.

Speaker 6 And...

Speaker 26 You know, I mean...

Speaker 8 I mean, when you're talking about zoning... Yeah. You kind of want people to be able to see... You want people to see it. ...what we're talking about. Yeah. No one's going to want to flip to the back. Yeah.

Speaker 5 And, you know, maybe you don't feel strongly about that. And, you know, maybe you do. So... But it's just good to kind of be thinking about these things now. Like, the placement of maps and...

Speaker 1 That seems like a no-brainer.

Speaker 5 ...photos, if you really... You know, some towns have had feelings about photos and, like, whether or not to include them. I was just talking to... I mean, you've got some nice, like, photos covering around your current plan. I think they're really nice.

Speaker 5 Like, there's a lot of... A lot of them are, like, you know, scenic pictures of Stamford. And, again, maybe that's something you don't care about. But I was just talking to our coworker, Nick, earlier today. And we're doing a project with Arlington. And they were like, no photos. Really? This is just straight up, like, we don't want any, like, embellishments or, like, we just want, like... Huh. I think we're embellishers. I mean, and, you know, they're still early in the process, so they might change their mind. But, like, they had feelings about it. And... But you may not... You may not be, like...

Speaker 1 No. Who's going to want to look at it like that? Yeah. I can't think of anything else. I think you're picking it up.

Speaker 9 Here you go.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 7 Yeah. I think ours was, like, cut and paste from the one before. Right. I think the last town plant, I think, was cut and paste from the town plant before.

Speaker 1 No, let's not do that.

Speaker 7 No, that's... I'm just saying that... Most of it was. Most of it was.

Speaker 1 And you got some of those, like, blonde historical photos. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I was thinking about that. That might be good to put in. We've got a slideshow.

Speaker 4 People would like to play that. We might be able to get some more. Yeah. Some more historical photos. Yeah. Lots. Yeah.

Speaker 8 I mean, I felt like this slideshow was really...

Speaker 27 That was cool.

Speaker 8 ...a really, like, wonderful part of our, like, visioning. Yeah.

Speaker 19 It's sort of why you get into the light here. Yeah. Postcards and that.

Speaker 8 Yeah. Well, that's where a lot of those...

Speaker 4 That slideshow that we had running out here that day, a lot of those were postcards. Okay. Cool. So, like, I have a bunch of postcards, and I know the town has a bunch of postcards.

Speaker 1 And that's just something we cobbled together from you and Kurt, like, a couple days ago. Yeah.

Speaker 5 There's a whole mess of historical stuff. Yeah. So, again, it's, like, these are things, you know, that... To think about, some of them you may care about more than others, or you may all be in consensus. You don't need to spend much time on, you know, like, yes, we all agree . But it's just kind of... It's helpful to talk about these things now to kind of smooth out the, you know, the drafting process going forward. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 5 As much ahead of time as what you want from us so that we can give you what you want.

Speaker 4 I think we just need to communicate because you're working on these other towns, and so you clearly have an idea of what different town plans and different processes look like. So if we work together, we should be able to get a nice seamless process together to come up with something that's really good.

Speaker 8 What was the third topic?

Speaker 5 I think that was actually all of it because the drafting question, I think, was separate from the third topic. They just flowed right into each other, yeah. But yeah, so we're going to think about potential speakers to come as a resource for you at one of your August meetings. Is there a preference for, like, do you already have something scheduled for either an August meeting that one wouldn't work for a guest speaker? Okay.

Speaker 1 I do have some questions when you're done.

Speaker 5 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 I just wanted to know. So the regional plan, is that still open for public comment?

Speaker 5 The first public hearing is on Thursday.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 5 It's hybrid. If you want to come in person, it's on Rupert, which is, like, over the choice. I was going to let everyone. I know. We try to move our meetings around the region. Stamford.

Speaker 2 Stamford.

Speaker 5 Yeah, we should. But Rupert won't come. We did a meeting in Town Hall, and our Rupert route came.

Speaker 11 So just suggest.

Speaker 1 Just so everyone knows, there is a BCRC meeting on Thursday. Is that 6 or 5? Does it start at 6? It says 5.30, but, yeah.

Speaker 24 5.30 is a social, like, dinner party.

Speaker 1 So there is a link on the BCRC site. Yeah. I'll see you there, Aldi. Yep.

Speaker 24 Yep.

Speaker 5 That's pretty good. I'm making a cake. I'm making a special cake.

Speaker 1 I also want to know about, so the watershed, is that person also speaking on the 16th?

Speaker 18 Yeah, it's like a basin.

Speaker 1 Okay, yeah. Oh, yeah. What? Yeah, and that's... So that'll be part of that meeting?

Speaker 4 On that Thursday?

Speaker 1 And that's also open for public? There is a basin plan. You can Zoom it at night.

Speaker 4 If he signs up for the Zoom, will that give him a recording of the meeting?

Speaker 5 We don't have a sign-up, like it's a webinar, but we do record, and we do post it. We post the recording to our website after the meeting. So he can go in and watch it after the meeting. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 18 If you have comments, I'm going to submit them.

Speaker 1 Is there, are they taking public comments on that, too, on the basin? I'm not sure.

Speaker 18 I can ask our colleague, Jim, I haven't been...

Speaker 1 It looked like there was comments, but I didn't know when it closed.

Speaker 9 I actually posed a couple questions to read about National Forest when they're deforesting the area, though, by roaring broken Carmel Brook watersheds, but I never got an answer.

Speaker 18 Okay, I'll ask about the public comments on the basin. Okay.

Speaker 1 Thanks.

Speaker 9 So I was curious. Those are class, those are like class one streams, high-grade streams. I forget my exact question that I asked, but I had something to do with what was the, you know, what happened to the stream after an operation. Oh. What is it?

Speaker 7 What do they call them? High-class? What's that? What do you call the streams? Class one.

Speaker 9 They're like high-rated streams. Yeah, they come... High-class. High-class. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I don't know if you, you know, in the past, I've seen, you know, rare and, you know, scarce biota, basically, for plants and stuff, grow up in there. I was just curious whether they knew that or what the conditions might be now, after operations.

Speaker 1 Nothing, huh?

Speaker 9 But I never got an answer. No. But that was, that was all of the basin plan, at least the classifications of those streams. So, what's the day that this BCR came?

Speaker 1 Thursday. This Thursday. Thursday.

Speaker 7 Thursday. Thursday. 5.30. Dinner. Thursday. 5.30. Yeah.

Speaker 28 6 o'clock is the business.

Speaker 1 You got dinner. 5.30. You can snack virtually for half an hour.

Speaker 5 And I think it'll just, I think the people who are doing presentations, the screen share should show up in the recording, but it's just going to be audio because our owl, our meeting owl that we use, the camera's busted. So, which is a bummer because that's like really expensive

Speaker 11 piece of equipment. The audio. So we'll know we're not wrong when

Speaker 5 we just hear it. Yeah, the audio will be recorded and I think like anyone who is giving a presentation will do, you know, the screen share will show up on the recording, but there won't be like, you won't really be able to see anybody in the room. They should do what we do. Yeah. Yeah, I think we're probably just going to have to get like a new camera to separately have to go with the audio of the owl. Because audio works fine, it's just the lens got really damaged recently and the image looks like weirdly like kaleidoscopic butthouse.

Speaker 29 I feel like you guys should be able to buy a new system. We, yeah, I mean,

Speaker 5 it's on my list to research getting a new. You can ask

Speaker 7 BCR for a grant.

Speaker 5 But yeah, so that'll be Thursday 530 starts this dinner and social portion at 6 o'clock is the business portion. And the info, the Zoom information and the agenda are, and the like public hearing notice and everything already posted on our website on the meetings page of the BCRC website. So that is all there.

Speaker 30 Do we still need an hour and a half to leave? Yeah, I mean, it depends

Speaker 6 but, and you know, it depends on how many comments people have on either the tactical basin plan or the regional plan, but they're typically like an hour to 90 minutes.

Speaker 1 And just so you guys know, I did write to Callie and Sam and they do not dictate our, you know, village, rural, those outlines. We do, right?

Speaker 28 And the wetland maps are not done yet. So when I mentioned

Speaker 7 that before, I was told by members here, I think, that it was already set and it can't go any further that way or that way. You're talking about the village? That's the village center. Oh, that's what I thought.

Speaker 31 I think you guys put out like a sample map. Village center, yeah, now that's

Speaker 18 mapped in the regional plan. And I think I came in spring of last year to talk about it and then I remember some of my time back and forth because there was a question about

Speaker 1 moving the boundary to the town garage.

Speaker 18 And then we decided ultimately to just keep the boundaries the way they are. I think that you, I mean, if there are questions or comments about the village center boundary, then you should let us know and we would be... I'm just wondering

Speaker 7 what the benefits or I mean, I had mentioned it once before and it didn't go over too well with various people, but I don't know why. I just want, it's not like I want the boundaries changed, but why does it not make sense to have the center starting from the bridge on the north end to the state line on the south end? Just the center of the road. I guess I would like to... But I guess you think of...

Speaker 7 That's not the whole town.

Speaker 4 You think of the center as being, you know, that is the center. Well, I think it has to do with grants and it would open up

Speaker 14 too much ability for almost the whole town to have grants.

Speaker 7 But who said that though?

Speaker 14 I don't, I think the state. The state does dictate. I mean, we had to, I think... We had to fight to get... We had to fight to get what we got. I do remember that. Yeah.

Speaker 18 That doesn't make any...

Speaker 19 No, it makes total sense. I thought it was our...

Speaker 18 The process has just changed. So I think that's why this little bit of... Because the process used to be exactly what you're describing where the town sort of went forward with a request for the center.

Speaker 7 Right.

Speaker 18 And then the state board had a meeting about it and decided what the appropriate

Speaker 7 boundary was. To let the towns decide.

Speaker 32 Correct. Well, so originally

Speaker 18 like even up until like a year ago, the state body was still saying yes or no to the boundary. Right. And so I think that's probably where you would have gotten feedback to keep it like very restricted. Now the process is that we map it in the regional map and then like through conversation with municipalities and that when our regional plan is adopted, that's the boundary of the center. And so hopefully it will give the towns more room to sort of expand the centers. But I think there are still some... There's still some oversight from the state about sort of the criteria for each center. And they are generally in favor of kind of keeping them focused on areas that they consider to be more walkable. And so that might also be a constraint on going all the way to the southern border of the town. So

Speaker 9 the original, one of the original thoughts and I don't even know if this is still a thing, but outside of the village district there was then another circle of like a quarter mile or a half

Speaker 9 mile that was called the developmental zone. So the farther you expand the village center, the farther you expand

Speaker 33 the developmental zone. So that's the way

Speaker 7 they were... The old version, the way that I read it from the state that's the old version where you had a center village and then you had the outer circle. And I think there was even a larger circle too. I think that was the whole purpose of it all. But, and then I thought it was it might have been Jim Sullivan because I had seen him in Bennington. He had mentioned something recently. It was like it was in the winter time. But he had mentioned something of that effect where now you just we designate where our boundaries are. That's why I was always confused as to why I got shut up. I mean every time I brought it up a couple of times it was like, oh no, it's already set. But why?

Speaker 18 Well it's just in like the last year and a half. So I think I guess I came last spring and we talked about it and then I don't think I didn't get any formal comments requesting for a southern expansion. I know we have had that exchange about the northwestern expansion. And that again was sort of a walkability issue I think where they don't the state still has some oversight and they don't want villages just sort of expanding to pull in one specific area. Especially if there aren't plans to develop the road connecting to the garage I think is another big piece of it. So they want to see that the contiguous village center is an area that Stamford wants to see sort of as like a residential mixed use civic center of the village. And so that was sort of the

Speaker 9 Completely different way. I feel like Why don't you finish? I've got to eat right now. You have that much?

Speaker 1 I know you have an acre and a half.

Speaker 4 Yeah but I feel like we need more discussion on this. I'm not this doesn't

Speaker 4 it's not really making it's not really making a lot of sense

Speaker 34 to me. This was this decision

Speaker 7 that was made by in my opinion now I'm not trying to be a bully or anything like that. But it was made. Boom. Done. And it was like when when I started to understand the reason when I tried to understand where where the town would prosper in the long run. Wouldn't it make sense to have the bridge the whole center of Stamford. It's not the whole town.

Speaker 9 The only way you're going to prosper

Speaker 7 It's a half a mile. Right?

Speaker 9 It's still the same goal. It's a lot of changes. The only way you can prosper is that one person Exactly. But you would make more sense to expand

Speaker 10 Yeah because

Speaker 4 I mean again so when you think about it if you're thinking about walkability and development it really makes more sense for instance if you were talking about this center right here it makes more sense to develop for instance around above the fire house you know in between you know Mill and Jepson in that area so it makes more sense to be there than it does down by my house.

Speaker 9 Yeah there's no businesses down there. The golf course would make sense to put it there. Not the land but the structure. Right. It's walkable into the village town. The historic village from everything I've ever seen or read is from the lane to the bridge that was it. That's the village.

Speaker 7 I didn't want to go as far

Speaker 9 But when you but what does so

Speaker 4 but when you're talking about this what does history play into this in that if you're talking about planning for the future

Speaker 9 what does the history have to do with it? That's what that's what

Speaker 4 This is a

Speaker 18 philosophical debate in the state of Vermont It is. It really is. And I don't mean to make light of it this question of is it future planning or is it recognizing the historic center is of tension. It's actually

Speaker 4 okay if it's either if you just state what it is but that's where my confusion is. I don't I don't understand what it is, the goal of this is and what it's trying to accomplish.

Speaker 9 To have downtowns look like kind of like Bennington does and so on

Speaker 9 where you have a 200 year old building that the dentist works on or the next building is an old structure that the butcher works on It's preservation of historic buildings in a downtown center. Well without knowing

Speaker 1 which one it is it's hard to really draw the boundary. I

Speaker 7 Right, right.

Speaker 14 Yeah so why is Billmont's in there?

Speaker 9 Because it was a business and they might use brands. Yeah but see that I mean I was I mean I was here

Speaker 4 when I was here at those meetings when we were discussing it and discussing it going down to Billmont's and why we were talking about it going to Billmont's is not at all it was it was all about oh they're a business and oh they might need grants but now you're sitting here telling me it's about preserving the historic structures and the historic

Speaker 9 I didn't want to go as far as Billmont's But you see

Speaker 7 Kurt I don't understand why

Speaker 9 Because in my mind's eye it depletes the whole reason for a village center

Speaker 7 See we have

Speaker 35 we have bylaws right

Speaker 7 and our bylaws we can write our bylaws to create our laws for downtown and our village center It opens up the village center idea or for the state designation it opens us for possible grants throughout now God forbid but at some point Pam's not going to be around and maybe her family may want to sell all of that property down there right? Do you know how to preserve maybe

Speaker 35 The grants aren't for home construction

Speaker 9 they're for preservation

Speaker 7 Kurt all you need to do is explain to me why you're dead set against Let's let Kelly speak for a minute

Speaker 1 Huh? Let's hear what Kelly has to say

Speaker 9 Kelly

Speaker 5 I don't think anything that I'm going to say is so important but to me I kind of see it as like the village center is trying to have the best of both worlds with both looking forward and preserving what is there and it's often about kind of acknowledging the historic center of civic life in a community and using that as the focal point for future growth you know and I think identifying that limited you know area where a community might want you know some development to happen that is appropriate for their community but it's centered on what has been a historic

Speaker 1 See the word development right there is what scares me

Speaker 8 Exactly because how do you preserve and develop like you're either preserving a historic because you know we don't have businesses so what we have is basically residents residencies and church and a couple of churches and so on so there's no butcher shop in the top of you know

Speaker 9 There's encouraging development in an area that's probably 60% from the lane south that's probably at least 60%

Speaker 5 And I don't you know when I say development I don't mean like that this necessarily that like this opens the door for you know massive levels of development Your land use regulations are still in place whether you do a village center or not I think again it's about kind of acknowledging that you know this area where we're sitting right now has kind of historically been the center of civic life and that there you know this is where the majority of mixed uses exist in town or that many of them exist elsewhere but there are some mixed uses right here where you've got the school and the municipal building

Speaker 5 you've got a church you've got you know the like creamery

Speaker 24 But nothing to the southern border

Speaker 5 Yeah and then you've got the country store and you've got some residences too so this is where most of the mixed uses happen already in Stamford and that the village center mapping acknowledges that you know you can kind of again I'm trying not to use the word like preserve and

Speaker 18 develop because I think this is a really good conversation to be having as you're in the middle of a town plan update because the same way that the natural resource planning informs your like this conversation and a sort of high level discussion about like where these boundaries should go this is a really good time to have that and to start really trying to answer these questions and the village center boundaries like that can be changed and I think having clear planning policies in your town plan and in your bylaws will be the directive to really enforce those changes like for the village center boundary and so like the regional plan is in the process of being adopted but we can make an amendment if Stamford wants to change the center boundaries like there are avenues for changing that and I don't think this conversation should be rushed because these are the big questions

Speaker 36 and we also have

Speaker 5 we just had a similar discussion with another community and we pulled together there is a state resource that kind of describes the designations and sort of how they work in the new structure and what the benefits are and how they interact with you know land use

Speaker 1 what was that resource yeah

Speaker 5 state planning and then there is also a specific page that I think addresses

Speaker 9 the day in this conversation is the state

Speaker 5 yeah yeah

Speaker 7 I one way or the other I'm just trying to figure out why wouldn't you and what is the benefits I guess that's a discussion we need to have again because makes no sense

Speaker 9 east west expansion farther up the road farther down the lane that's just historically more compact

Speaker 4 when you keep going back to we keep circling around and also looking at these zoning districts

Speaker 34 so we're in the midst of doing the bylaws too

Speaker 7 so we're going to need to know for our village center bylaws we'll have specific topic we'll have a

Speaker 37 well the village center is not going to be

Speaker 1 a separate section in the bylaw as of now

Speaker 7 it will be I mean why wouldn't it be

Speaker 37 it's not a section

Speaker 7 it's just part of the residential

Speaker 1 it's not a code section

Speaker 9 as a section

Speaker 7 I mean the designation of the village center at some point we may end up having to write some bylaws for it I'm just saying

Speaker 1 we'd have to make it its own section which we didn't last time we talked about it

Speaker 28 no I know we didn't last time we talked about it

Speaker 1 a couple of meetings ago we decided it didn't behoove us to really add that

Speaker 9 we lost a little bit of money because we weren't willing to change something you could get I won't get into it you could get into certain things in the village where you could change the language and have absolutely no effect whatsoever

Speaker 14 I think it was we were considering having it be one acre

Speaker 38 have it be what one acre

Speaker 14 have a minimum of one acre

Speaker 39 right

Speaker 9 that was another one Jim Sullivan

Speaker 7 was trying to get us to do at the time

Speaker 9 I mean there's some there's lots in the village here that are less than an acre less than a half acre well

Speaker 1 anything else

Speaker 4 no they're like we're never coming back to see you again seriously that was so long thank you very much

Speaker 17 but we will

Speaker 5 you're very respectful we will follow up again with the raw survey data and the spreadsheet the manual research from the state that talks about the village center destinations and once we have some more information about a potential speaker in August and then probably also want to come to your maybe your first September but we will do the discussion and then kind of continue the discussion about structure and draft

Speaker 1 so we'll talk about this in the meantime

Speaker 5 yeah so take some time to think about what works best for you thank you very much thank you well we'll get some

Speaker 4 I don't know I think the ice cream

Speaker 5 I was like it's open till 8 that was a life changing donut that I had I was like texting I was like this is the best donut I've ever had wow she gave it to me in two minutes

Speaker 29 thank you

Speaker 4 thank you

Speaker 40 right here what do you got for us oh yeah oh yeah

Speaker 9 i'm here this evening i'm sure you guys got so many articles but probably nothing to the extent of nothing not like that it's not that big so this is all useful information and i kind of wrote it down in the categories this is just randomness this is old articles and stuff is standard historically not officially um precedents there's a lot of precedents in there um this is the one i was going to give to natalie she's not here so um i kind of broke them down basically on ways i thought might be interested but you guys can change them around you can throw them out store them whatever you want there's a bunch of old bylaws for you this i put a little vital on it but i usually hear a statement wilderness and job which is for you just wilderness roads you get harry that's very good so much thicker than you'll learn a lot of that if you ever remember harry at all you're gonna enjoy that give it the definite i'll take it i'll take it because i own so it's just loaded i don't want to touch it uh Excuse me historical details that are in the article like i said a lot of precedents in there like old articles from the 80s and 90s from standard where this and this or that happened i did some research real quick and came across a lot of historical details like i said a lot of precedents in there like old articles from the 80s and 90s and some standards where this and this and that happened um in different references mostly on land use management there's water is open areas articles wall stone walls this is good because you know yours is about independent state what is it what did you say vermont was an independent state was a republic state I lived in Vermont for a long time, even after the revolution. I had my own, like, whole set of government. So yeah, background, you know, read it, don't read it. I just tend to know what else to do when I'm at my house, and I hated to just have it sit there because a lot of it. At one time I read this all. I haven't read it all recently. I wouldn't say I agree with all of it, but all of it is, like, insightful. It's information. Yeah. Thanks very much.

Speaker 1 I'm in the process of taking... Is this stuff to keep after? Because I'm putting it together. Deb really asked me to put it all in a binder to kind of share. So can I have all this when we're done with it?

Speaker 9 It's all worthy of keeping. I kept everything out of it that I wanted for myself.

Speaker 12 So when we're done with it, I'll put it in a binder.

Speaker 14 Some of this is personal to them.

Speaker 9 That was an article pulled out of...

Speaker 14 You know, this is...

Speaker 9 Oh, it might be. It's a copy of their home and stuff. Yeah. It's just in there with rugs, but nothing overly personal. No, no. Yeah, it's just stuff that they've been giving me. They gave me another pamphlet the other day. So I got into that one. Yeah. But it's all good stuff, and I did read it all at one time.

Speaker 4 I feel like a lot of this stuff should be scanned in.

Speaker 9 I've just been kind of going through a lot of different organizational stuff. I just didn't want to throw it in the bin.

Speaker 12 Yeah.

Speaker 1 If we put it... I'll put it in the...

Speaker 9 Maybe binders, plural. Yeah. Like, you know, I was reading that one, and I kind of thought it might be a good thing,

Speaker 4 but the thing is...

Speaker 10 It's a very good thing.

Speaker 9 I'm going to make sure I'm not going to put it in the bin. Yeah.

Speaker 9 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 8 It's also when you see the way some of the things have changed, it's helpful because when people will say, oh, that's the way it's always been, actually, no, it's different.

Speaker 41 A lot of the articles are dated.

Speaker 9 That's very interesting because there was a whole survey and a town plan in the late 80s, and they're going to come up, their maps are in there, too, the little maps of those 25-acre lots and all that are in your panties. And it just lost. It lost at a special town meeting in December of 1989, and it just kind of went away, and we just reordered it back to the bylaws that were in place at the time. There was a lot of conversation about it, and that was right after, you know, everything that was going on in the Star Wars game came together, so they kind of meshed together.

Speaker 19 That's three years after I moved. You moved here in 86.

Speaker 9 They wanted, I mean, there was articles in the transcript and everything else. I'm not sure who got what, but it's all out there, different articles. Cool. That Stamford actually used to be reported on.

Speaker 14 This is when they reclassified County Road, Risting Ranch, and Klondike as Class 4.

Speaker 42 Yeah, so there's precedent in one of the road plans.

Speaker 2 What was it before?

Speaker 14 They were town roads that were plowed.

Speaker 9 Yeah. Yeah. Oh. So Sparrow Drive was a project. It was a private road that had to become a town road.

Speaker 7 Yeah, it did in November 29, 1984.

Speaker 9 A lot of this dated stuff. There it is. You got it right there. That's it. So they had the same. You should have dates. Some places. Some of it. Some aspects of the select board just said, yeah, go ahead. Go ahead.

Speaker 7 Go to Commissioner of Power Road, and then it's a precedent. Okay. Well, okay.

Speaker 9 Right. Right.

Speaker 9 So this is still some of the stuff we dabble in now.

Speaker 7 Mm-hmm. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. At that meeting.

Speaker 41 How many?

Speaker 9 Fifteen. I actually recognize it. If you don't work with all of them there, I'll be probably recognizing it more than me. It's in the sand right there. Maybe. You can't see, right? Put your glasses on. They're all old-timers. They're in the 80s. They're old in the 80s.

Speaker 12 All right.

Speaker 1 Well, everybody look that over. Maybe bring it back, and we can rotate them or something.

Speaker 9 Yeah. I mean, you switch them over and work with everything. Yeah. I want to say, Natalie, this one is just mismatched. Oh. There's a whole bunch of different stuff. All right.

Speaker 1 I think she probably has some hands full. Yeah. All right. Let's move on to the reading of poodles minutes, please.

Speaker 8 Make a motion to accept.

Speaker 7 Second. Oh, I wasn't here. Sorry. So, second.

Speaker 1 Oh, I can do that. I'm not writing them.

Speaker 19 Dad, the second.

Speaker 43 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Aldi. Aldi.

Speaker 7 Aldi. I was sitting on the toilet. Okay.

Speaker 1 Old business. Okay. Okay. So, we have our attendance policy. I'm just going to pass it around to be signed. Okay. So, I wanted to revisit the wetlands. We had wondered if the governor, et cetera, had the governor's executive order. It made it 25 instead of 50 for the buffer, but it's still 50.

Speaker 14 It's still 50, and I just spoke with Rebecca Chalmers, and my specific question was if it does get reduced. If it gets reduced to 25, can we as a town override that? And that's a really good question. Okay. It is a state law, which my argument was that we can be more restrictive, but when it comes to certain things, we may not be able to. So, that's a question for the BLCT, for our town attorney. So, I guess we should kind of table that until. Okay. A decision is made. Right. She doesn't have the answer.

Speaker 9 Did I read correctly somewhere that it only applies to like 3% of the state? I think the vote on that was honest. You're talking about the wetlands buffer? Yeah.

Speaker 9 So, it just takes 25 feet, right? I think it only applies to a small portion of the state, and it's based off like it expires at 1.30. Yes, 1.30.

Speaker 19 I am vehemently opposed to reducing the buffer from 50 feet. Yes. 25 feet, because now all of a sudden.

Speaker 9 So, Stamford doesn't have it.

Speaker 14 What?

Speaker 9 It's not the Duke-Stamford. I think so. What do you mean? Yeah, why do you think it doesn't have it?

Speaker 9 Because the governor tried to put it in place to encourage development, highly developmental areas that have sewered water, and it's only going to apply to like 3% of the state. That's the way I would say it.

Speaker 14 I didn't read it that way, but good.

Speaker 9 I hope you're right. Yeah. I mean, I'd reread it for sure, but that's the way I understood it. Okay. I'm going to.

Speaker 8 Yeah. Okay. That's good, because that was nerve-wracking when I read that.

Speaker 9 That's the way I understood it. That's why you saw it. It's not the Duke-Stamford.

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 4 But because, as you know, it was 50 feet, which is what, half or a third of what Massachusetts is, right? Is it the buffer in Massachusetts, 100 or 150 feet? I'm not sure. So, ours is 50. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Drop that down to 25, basically just so they can build housing in places that... Unless you're a big corporation like Walmart, you get to move the reference. I mean, double-check me, but I think that's the manner of the people. Wow.

Speaker 4 I am opposed to... Yeah.

Speaker 9 Well, it just sets the door open, then do it for the rest of the state.

Speaker 4 Right. And it's just this all-out... I mean, I understand that they want to build housing. Yeah. I completely understand why they want to build housing, but...

Speaker 1 You can't just make them a plan.

Speaker 44 I mean, what does that...

Speaker 4 What does that... Yeah, I just...

Speaker 9 There's ways to build housing, but everyone's just got to get out of their mind, and it's probably impossible that everyone is going to live in two acres in a one-story house or whatever. That's not the housing that's going to happen. Mm-hmm. It's not like they're doing in Boston, right, where they use a long-line to count up some player. It's not... Well, not in Stamford. Everyone gets their own house, and that's the individual law. It's just not in the broker yet. Oh. Yeah. But we... Yeah.

Speaker 1 Speaking of that, though, I did ask him about the housing targets, and they're targets. They're not mandates for us right now. Yet. So Stamford, it's 14 to 23 units by 2030, which is not that far away from now. And then it's 66 to 130 by 2050, which I just think that's crazy.

Speaker 4 It doesn't even... It's insane. It does not matter, because the only way it matters, because they're not going to put a gun to anybody. They're not going to put a gun to anyone's head to force them to build. The only way it matters is if the state or the feds or the state and the feds together make massive money available to get developers to actually want to come in. Yeah.

Speaker 9 Well, where does all that money come from? To angst. Well, from Stamford's point of view, I mean, if the state's willing to come down and supply us with sewer water, pay $1,000. 100% of it, I'm sure there's all kinds of other developers that would just love to build up to here. Yeah. 100%. They would explode, but we don't have that. We don't have that ability.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 9 So we're protected.

Speaker 4 So I'm not... I mean, I'm not concerned about these targets. I mean, or...

Speaker 14 But even if you have public water, you're still drawing from everybody else's water. Sure. It's not like this infinite supply just because you've got sewer and water.

Speaker 9 No, we just think developers... I think... We've got a lot of complexes. I think you can get through that in one build, right? 14 houses. There you go. But they were... It just gives them the selling point. Well, I understand that, but it's...

Speaker 1 Right. It's not infinite. Yeah. But it's... I think we just need to keep our eye, too, on the regional plan that was being talked about because those... I believe those housing goals are in their regional plan, and there's still time for us to give input on that before it's finalized, which is why I asked you.

Speaker 7 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree with that. And that's... The other thing is we don't have the state... Our building lots are two acres right now. If we keep them at two acres and we don't change anything, they can't... Okay.

Speaker 4 So that is where... It is not out of the question that the state could mandate that we can't have... That we cannot restrict zoning to two acres. It's just like... It's just like us saying, well, we're not going to have any four families because we don't want any four families in town. You can't do that. Right? Yeah. Correct. You cannot do that. So that is where the states desire to get more housing, where it does become potentially something where they could say, yeah, no, you can't say that you're not going to do anything under two acres.

Speaker 7 Well, as the law is written right now... Right now, Pam, is that the state can... The state laws, they can put any laws in effect whatsoever, but we can always be stronger. Ours can be stronger. Stricter.

Speaker 14 In certain instances, like we couldn't say, we couldn't come in and say, no APUs. We are...

Speaker 7 Oh, no, that's a state law. That's a different thing. But they will...

Speaker 4 That's exactly what we're saying. They can... They can come along and change it if they decide to.

Speaker 45 Right.

Speaker 4 Will they do that? That was my question on the... Unlikely. Right.

Speaker 7 The talk is that they would allow two units per lot. ADUs. That was what... Yeah. That was what I was told. But not... But they can't be... Like an ADU has to be within the same building lot, right?

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 7 They're saying... If you have the property, like if you have enough property to put two or three ADUs, you know, use the...

Speaker 8 But then you have to have enough septic for those additional units. So if you start popping up... Popping in more ADUs, you then have to have more septic.

Speaker 14 We're also back to the discussion that I think is more important. If you're going to do that, you have to make the... If you're going to do that, you have to have more vessels so that they can be carved out into separate units. So there has to be... Right.

Speaker 46 Well, we got...

Speaker 14 Each one has to be a two-acre with enough setback so it may be sold off. Just be careful. The state doesn't help. I'm sure it will lay you in towards, okay, now you have these sort of water. Right.

Speaker 9 They're going to always try to push that envelope. Well, that's what they're getting at. 100%. And they're just going to gradually change policies here and there. And they just keep... Pushing it out of line and like, oh, well, we'll give you 14 units or so.

Speaker 33 We keep everything too...

Speaker 7 At the end of the day... Too acreage. Right.

Speaker 4 The town, the people in the town want a certain thing. And if the people in the town do not want more building, then the zoning laws are going to represent what people desire.

Speaker 47 Right. It's not...

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 9 Push back. Right. Just like all these articles about... Those have a lot of conversation here at Beck above standard. Yes. Independent of Vermont. So, I mean... You know.

Speaker 4 Well, again...

Speaker 9 They'll enforce it on you.

Speaker 4 I just think that our job is to look at what the town wants... Yeah. And make policy and rules that reflect that.

Speaker 4 And I'm not... I'm not... I'm not focused on what the state wants.

Speaker 1 It's good to keep an eye on it. Yeah, yeah. And stuff... I think stuff's going to get in with the regional plan. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 Yeah. I mean, that's a question. Actually, if I had been thinking of that, we could have asked them while we were here, which we can ask them on Thursday at the meeting. But what... You know, what does... If they put in their regional plan that Stamford has this target, what does that mean? What does that mean? And does Stamford... And does Stamford have any ability to say, yeah, that's ridiculous.

Speaker 1 I mean, right now, it's just a target. It's like a suggestion right now. But the thing to keep an eye on is when it stops being a suggestion and it becomes a mandate. That's what concerns me.

Speaker 4 I agree.

Speaker 48 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I don't agree. I mean, because the language is already getting there in black and white.

Speaker 4 I mean, let's not forget. I mean, I don't know whether... Let's not forget that we fought with them to keep a windmill. From being within 0.6 miles of existing homes. And so what did the commission do? They took 0.6 and they changed it to 0.3.

Speaker 1 Which is something else I think I would like to talk about at some point. Because before this regional plan goes through and they make it the 0.5, we've already got the Hoosick Range not mentioned now, that language taken out. But the 0.5 is still there. And that concerns me.

Speaker 14 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I think that's something I've been wanting to bring up now that you mention it. 25 what? Miles. Well, I mean... We at least want to keep the kilometer.

Speaker 44 Well, that would be bad.

Speaker 4 Right.

Speaker 1 But minimum we should keep our kilometer that we had.

Speaker 4 Then that's not even... That's not... The kilometer's not good enough. 0.6 miles is not good enough. A mile and a half. See, that's the problem. That's what it should be. A mile and a half. It's half a kilometer.

Speaker 1 Which maybe is 0.6 miles. I don't know.

Speaker 4 No. A kilometer is 0.6 miles. Right. So now... But there were 10 kilometers. Now...

Speaker 7 I think I was within a mile.

Speaker 14 Right. We don't.

Speaker 1 You would have been hearing it. But the bare minimum, I just say we should probably talk about fighting to keep the kilometer at least. Yes. I don't want it to go to half a kilometer. I was within a mile.

Speaker 4 Absolutely. Which I brought up at that meeting. And they were just like, oh, I'm off.

Speaker 1 Right. I know. So... I think it's something we really need to drill down on before the... I didn't get an answer from them when it was finalized. I know it's by the end of 26, so... You mean the distance? The regional plan? The regional plan? Yeah. Their regional plan, would it be final draft approved? It's in 26, so...

Speaker 14 But you're talking about the distance for a minute.

Speaker 1 Yeah, which is in there. Because they...

Speaker 14 Which we would have to when I'm buying.

Speaker 1 Right. So I think we need to step on it with that. Wait.

Speaker 9 Windmills are just a way to earn money. Oh, totally.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they're not efficient.

Speaker 9 They do. There's nothing for making energy for... To preserve in the environment.

Speaker 1 At least not the way they're doing it. All right.

Speaker 4 Well, we're not even going to go there. The point is, our mission is to keep them from putting them so close to existing homes.

Speaker 1 So maybe we need to actually draft up a letter, you know, and go through, like we did before, to the Select Board, the Conservation Commission, to get the Hoosick language removed.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I mean, they know that we are opposed to that. It's been brought up.

Speaker 1 I think we need to put it in writing.

Speaker 4 Yeah, you're probably right. When is the plan going to be adopted again?

Speaker 1 I don't know. I know by the end of 26. So I didn't want to ask too many things.

Speaker 4 Yeah, so this is the first... Didn't she say this is the first meeting on Thursday?

Speaker 1 I don't know if it's the first one, but on Thursday we have the opportunity to have input. So I'm not sure how it's going to go.

Speaker 14 But are they even going to be discussing it?

Speaker 1 I don't know. I have no idea. I feel like we should get something in writing anyway. Okay, so I'll have to go to it.

Speaker 4 I won't go to this. So how... How do we... So how do we do that? Yeah, I'll be listening to it. How do we get something in writing? Can we...

Speaker 1 Let me figure it out. Okay.

Speaker 1 I'll go to the meeting on... I'll be Zooming on the meeting on Thursday. I'll listen to it. Okay.

Speaker 1 I don't know how we got in that section, but I'm glad. Right? Yeah, I know. Right? All right. Okay, that's all I have, unless we want to work on... I lost...

Speaker 14 I have other... I have little tasks to do. We were asking about the bylaw grant. Right. It is due September 1st, but they haven't... They haven't released it yet. So Nick is looking at it carefully. He knows we are interested in the bylaw grant for his health. He will help us with it.

Speaker 1 Oh, good. Okay.

Speaker 14 We need help. Do we know when we have to apply? Well, that's just...

Speaker 1 November...

Speaker 49 It is September 1st.

Speaker 1 But the deadline is like November 10th or something. I don't have it exactly.

Speaker 7 I don't think the applications are not available until September 1st.

Speaker 46 Is that what it was?

Speaker 1 Yeah, but then there's a deadline. I had it...

Speaker 7 That's what they said last time. It was either 1st or 15th, something like that.

Speaker 14 Well, I saw September 1st. I thought that's when it was.

Speaker 7 All right, so that's what it was then. Okay. That's when they're available. And November is the deadline for submission. Yeah, I just don't have it. It's in October. I don't know.

Speaker 8 If September 1st is when you can first... If it's October, that's a pretty quick turnaround.

Speaker 1 I think it's November 10th, but don't quote me. So we have some time.

Speaker 14 In any case, he will help us write the grant.

Speaker 1 Great. Okay, so it's not Callie this time.

Speaker 14 No, it's Nick. He's the Bible guy.

Speaker 1 Good. Will he be reaching out to you when that's available? Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 14 Great.

Speaker 1 Thank you, Deb. Anything else?

Speaker 7 And so that's what we're going to... Are we going to hold off and wait to see if we get the grant for that before we tackle the bylaws again? That's what I would suggest.

Speaker 19 So I think we need to get on this.

Speaker 8 I agree. Let's start talking about... I mean, even if we just riff a little bit about, like... I mean, maybe it's just obvious if we go through and say what the order should be, the clustering of this. Cluster, is that it?

Speaker 7 Unless Deb... Unless Deb, you got something that... No, no. It's an emergency that we need to...

Speaker 46 The only...

Speaker 14 I really haven't... No. With the bylaws, I ain't saying no every time, so... I'll refrain. I do, though... I spend an awful, awful, awful lot of time chasing notice of buildings that do not... Notice of buildings... Notice of buildings... So I think you kind of got away from the original intent of a building permit, and this is a statewide issue, too. But if you're going to put a full-on front porch on your house and it's less than 300 square feet, it should be a bit...

Speaker 7 Absolutely.

Speaker 14 And it's not right now.

Speaker 1 It's not?

Speaker 15 Why?

Speaker 8 Why is it not?

Speaker 50 It's an addition.

Speaker 14 It's a notice of building. It gets filed, but they don't have to pay. Yes, it's an addition. It gets filed with the town, but it's a 15-year-old.

Speaker 7 Who says that?

Speaker 14 That's how it's been since the last bylaws, when all this was changed.

Speaker 7 Nowhere in our bylaws... That's an addition to an existing floor plan.

Speaker 14 It is an existing... It is an addition, but it's just a notice of building.

Speaker 7 But who determined that? You?

Speaker 14 Yep.

Speaker 7 You're the only one who can.

Speaker 14 Yeah, so...

Speaker 7 That's not...

Speaker 14 Well, if somebody just puts a little thing over their house just to keep the rain when they step out of their house...

Speaker 7 Like a portico? According to our bylaws, that is an extension of the...

Speaker 14 It's an extension, but do you charge them $300?

Speaker 7 A building permit.

Speaker 4 A building permit.

Speaker 7 That's... Absolutely.

Speaker 4 That's what... I believe that's what got Aaron involved in this whole thing, because he went to put on some dinky... A dinky little thing above the door, and it turned into this whole huge ordeal. Oh, I thought it was the ice cream. No.

Speaker 19 I thought it was before the ice cream. Okay. All right. Well...

Speaker 9 There was some conversation about different prices for different things.

Speaker 4 I mean, so you don't want to rail people, and you don't, you know, you don't...

Speaker 51 But at the same time...

Speaker 4 But your bylaws are your bylaws, period. I mean, at the same time, if you're going out, and if the town is paying you, or they should be, then there should be some fee, some fee, to allow you to do your job, to... I mean, just to have somebody file stuff. I mean, it all costs money.

Speaker 1 Didn't you say it was $15? It's a $15.

Speaker 4 I guess that covers the... Somebody walking over and putting it in that thing, I guess.

Speaker 8 No. It doesn't cover someone's time. That doesn't cover... You've changed the footprint of the house. That is an addition.

Speaker 14 If they changed the footprint, then what if they put a dormer on the house?

Speaker 7 It's a footprint. You changed the footprint. You raised it.

Speaker 4 No, it's not the footprint. No, it's not a footprint. The footprint is... It's the footprint.

Speaker 7 So... Yeah.

Speaker 46 I mean, I...

Speaker 14 Yeah, I mean, like when the Landry's did theirs yesterday.

Speaker 7 A dormer is a change, period. It's a permit. I mean... No, it's just... It's... It's...

Speaker 9 It's an architectural change.

Speaker 7 Exactly. Read.

Speaker 8 Okay, but... So what about interior structural changes? Can't do nothing.

Speaker 4 But...

Speaker 8 Nothing with that. But that is a good example. Just exterior.

Speaker 4 So the little teeny thing that goes above the door compared to a big dormer. Right. Are you saying the little teeny thing that goes... Same thing. Yeah. So you want somebody to pay $300... Yeah. ...to build something, this little thing above their door?

Speaker 51 Right.

Speaker 4 Oh, that's... So I can see where that's heavy-handed. I don't do it. I don't do that.

Speaker 7 You don't have the right to change the law or to change the pricing. Only the select board does. And you're changing the bylaws as you go, which you don't have the right to do either.

Speaker 14 I... But it's my interpretation of the bylaws. A little thing over...

Speaker 7 So you have to... You have to enforce the bylaws and enforce the bylaws. Literally. In fact, I think that's the first sentence of your bylaws for your...

Speaker 52 It's subject to my interpretation.

Speaker 7 It is not subject to an interpretation. It's the law. I arrest my case.

Speaker 4 I... I... I mean, that's the police officer if you find out. And I mean... I mean, I hear you.

Speaker 7 No, the law is the law, period, right? And so you cannot... The first lesson of being... doing her job... or what I was doing there, the first paragraph, the first sentence, that you will enforce the laws, literally. You do not have the right in this job. You cannot... There is no... You know, okay, we'll make an exception here. You can't.

Speaker 4 What if the bylaws are wonky and willy-nilly and kind of...

Speaker 7 Bylaws are... Yeah, I mean, how do we... If they're willy-nilly and stuff, they need to... She needs to come back here where we change it, send it off... to the select work or change.

Speaker 1 That's what we're doing.

Speaker 44 I think that's what we're trying to do. Okay.

Speaker 4 Trying to fix it and make it not wonky and willy-nilly.

Speaker 1 All right, so next meeting, we're going to... Everybody maybe look over the table of contents and see what makes sense to you. Yeah. Oh, we could.

Speaker 8 We could go through it. Sure. Yeah, let's take a stab. Let's take a quick stab. Let's take a...

Speaker 1 Sorry, I wasn't trying to rush anybody.

Speaker 8 I'm getting ice cream. Oh, ice cream. Is that the motive for now?

Speaker 1 Oh, so is that... No, I'm not getting ice cream.

Speaker 14 What is that?

Speaker 53 Oh, it's the table of contents

Speaker 1 from the town plan. Oh. Do you want a copy of it? I have my town plan. Do you want it so you can give input?

Speaker 4 We're just happy you're here.

Speaker 19 We're happy to be here.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Good.

Speaker 9 I envision that the same old picture would be the same, but you guys shop away at it.

Speaker 8 Well, I mean, just right off the bat, the thing that you responded to, I agree with, which is, okay, introduction. Sure, fine. Vision goals. Vision goals, fine. Then let's not go right to economic development. Let's go to land use. Do we want to do land or people stuff first?

Speaker 9 That makes sense. Probably land. The order of change makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So land stuff first.

Speaker 4 Do we all want a copy of this? Sure.

Speaker 1 I have my town plan here.

Speaker 8 What people stuff? What do you mean, nine? Which number, nine?

Speaker 1 Where? I'm just saying people. Things have to do with people, but maybe we do all the land stuff first.

Speaker 8 I feel like land, I feel like, the natural resources. Let's make chapter four be chapter three. Let's make chapter five be chapter four.

Speaker 1 Do you mind if we just, like, not to change what you're doing, but if we just, like, do a broader thing first? Sure. Like, provide it to people stuff and then land stuff? Sure. Because then we might want to reorder those. Maybe. Sure.

Speaker 4 Maybe. Maybe. You know what? I can tell that this is your thing.

Speaker 7 Random switch of names.

Speaker 4 I can tell this is your thing. I'm sure you don't want to take this home and bring it back to the next meeting and make some suggestions. I want everybody,

Speaker 1 I want everyone to, why do I seem excited? No, yes.

Speaker 4 It's your thing. You gravitated right to it and you clearly

Speaker 54 have an understanding.

Speaker 8 Because an English major knows how to do an outline and knows how to do a topic sentence, right? I know, it's such a nerd. No, it's good. I think that's good. And you can call me and be like, what do you think of this? And I'll be like, no. And then we can fight it out. Yeah. Okay, good.

Speaker 4 All right. So, well, what do you think about that? What do you think about

Speaker 1 the rest of the board?

Speaker 48 I don't mind, but...

Speaker 54 I'm totally going to...

Speaker 8 I'll second that idea.

Speaker 1 I think Deb wants

Speaker 15 to give some advice.

Speaker 55 No, I'm fine.

Speaker 1 I'm done. I'll be Jim.

Speaker 14 Yeah. Good.

Speaker 1 I am not, for the record, I am not going for ice cream. It's so... My sister's visiting, though. It's so... Oh, yeah. How's the puppy?

Speaker 8 Well, you know. Oh. Yeah. She loves some kind of salve.

Speaker 4 I went to a doctor last night and I didn't even call her. Because you got a new puppy. I really wanted to call you, I have a husband still. I almost called you. I told you I was going to stay home and baby you.

Speaker 1 I would have gone. Where did you go? Down to studio nine.

Speaker 19 All right.

Speaker 1 Motion to adjourn at 8.44. Second. All in favor? And next meeting is... 1, 2, 3, 7. Thank you. The shoot should do 27th at 6 p.m.

Speaker 48 Let's make sure we get this right. Yes.

Speaker 4 Deb doesn't want to be showing up on the 6th.

Speaker 44 That was my fault.

Speaker 8 No, that was my fault. Because we did say... I said it. I said it because I was counting wrong.