---
title: "Stamford Select Board — September 17, 2026"
date: 2026-09-17
session: regular
speaker_labels: 1 cluster(s) named from the roll call and that meeting's chair in the minutes, 1 named from roster attendance, 6 of 8 clusters unnamed
voice_ids: {"SPEAKER_00":44,"SPEAKER_01":3,"SPEAKER_02":9,"SPEAKER_03":8,"SPEAKER_04":25,"SPEAKER_05":15,"SPEAKER_06":45,"SPEAKER_08":1}
duration_min: 44
audio: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1de1al62iDa_M8suMYtS_-CdXuHQXqwC3/view?usp=sharing
audio_source: town drive
minutes: https://townofstamfordvermont.org/mediaItems/Sbd%20Minutes%209-17-26.pdf
minutes_pending: false
present: [Nancy L. Bushika, Michael G. Denault, John Dunn, Jedidiah Gramlin]
absent: [Kurt Gamari]
transcribed: 2026-10-12 (faster-whisper large-v3, CUDA; names corrected per data/name_fixes.json)
diarization: pyannote/speaker-diarization-3.1 (automated; cluster labels may over-split a single voice; unattributed paragraphs have no reliable speaker)
---

# Stamford Select Board — September 17, 2026

**Session:** Regular · **Duration:** 44 min · [Audio](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1de1al62iDa_M8suMYtS_-CdXuHQXqwC3/view?usp=sharing) · [Minutes](https://townofstamfordvermont.org/mediaItems/Sbd%20Minutes%209-17-26.pdf)

**Present:** Nancy L. Bushika, Michael G. Denault, John Dunn, Jedidiah Gramlin
**Absent:** Kurt Gamari

---
America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Select Board, if you have a matter to discuss that is not included on the agenda, you may do so by addressing the chairperson and stating your name and address. You will notice that all our meetings are recorded, and this is to aid with the summarization of the minutes. Visitors are welcome, and we allow five minutes of comments per visitor and 15 minutes per topic. Discussions will be held in a calm and civilized manner and respectful of others. Select Board members present are...

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Michael G. Denault.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Nancy L. Bushika.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Jedidiah Gramlin. John Dunn.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Will there be any adding of items or removing items from tonight's agenda?

**Speaker 1:** I do have the reappraisal agreement. Okay. It wasn't when the agenda was ready.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** And I'd like to add an executive session regarding the upcoming tax sale. Okay. Will there be any adjustments to the agenda, such as changing the order of items? I don't think so. Good. And Jed is recording tonight's meeting for his YouTube video. Okay. Hearing of visitors. Representative Jonathan Cooper, you're on. You can come right up here and stand wherever you're...

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Stand on the stage.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Stand on the stage over there.

This is a good background. Thank you. Okay. All right.

**Speaker 2:** So, hello, I'm Jonathan Cooper, I'm the State Representative in my current office, and I think something that's affecting tax sales and how we have to go about providing notice to individuals affected by upcoming tax sales. This was Act 106 of 2024. I'd like to thank Shepard for giving me a little bit of guidance and who to talk to, for example, Kevin O'Toole, an attorney who works in these matters. I decided to reach out to some legislators who had introduced the bill in 2024 and also had jurisdiction over it to get a sense of how the testimony went. This was prior to my time in the legislature. The issue at hand appears to be that two new actions were added for what municipalities have to do to provide notice. As it had been in the past, you send a certified mail, if you get a receipt that it's been received by the individual, you're done. If you don't, you have to send first-class mail that provides all the information about the upcoming... tax sale date, et cetera. But the new things that were added was that in addition to that first-class mail, you now have to attempt to reach people by email and make a good-faith effort to find an email if you don't have it. Second, and the most important, you have to go to the property with the notice, and if there's a structure on the property, attach it to the door. I think that's new work. That's an unfunded mandate that doesn't come with any assistance from the state. I think that's a good thing. This is a new requirement. The goal is to make sure that nobody's surprised by a tax sale. In my conversation with Kevin O'Toole, he said about 70% of those certified letters are received. So this is about the last third, just making sure that people find out what they need to know. And you can go into these things fully informed, maybe make up, get out of arrears, if they can. It's worth noting that people, after a tax sale, you have a year to make good, and then everything's restored. But the challenge, I think, and I talked to the ranking member of the House Committee on Government Operations to ask, did anybody raise whether this creates a situation for conflict? Going to someone's house with bad news at a tough time in anybody's life, sending people out there to just go. Just go up to the end of a long driveway where someone doesn't want to see you. And just boom, and tap them on the door. And that's an uncomfortable situation. And unfortunately, that situation wasn't considered in the testimony they received. They took a lot of testimony, but that just didn't come up as a potential issue. That surprised me. How did you get that information that it wasn't considered? From the legislator who was the ranking member of the Committee of Jurisdiction. What's his name? Her name is Shaye Waters. And so the testimony is all archived as well online to be viewed, so we can check that out if need be. And then Kevin O'Toole also did not recall that coming up as part of what the delivery was. So there's... But... Kevin and I were talking about what were the options. The legislation is very different. You can decide whoever you want. You can send whoever you want to task that letter to the door. You can even send your state representative, but...

They're gonna be re-elected by 1200 and carried by six. And so... I thought that I might... That's what you do. So careful where you're at.

**Speaker 2:** So there is, again, there's sort of a thought that maybe some people could hire anyone they want. State police, sheriffs. That also may play into the same dynamic that we were already worried about in the first place. Amplifying that it's now a police matter. So this... And lastly, unfortunately, towns are not allowed to pass along the cost that might be incurred

by, say, hiring the sheriff. So at a tax sale, you can only get out of arrears.

**Speaker 2:** You can't then say, okay, but it costs us 400 bucks to have the deputy take this up. Yet they're forcing you to do it.

**Speaker 3:** Can't pass it up.

**Speaker 4:** So there's another bit of that unfunded mandate, and now you have to eat the cost.

**Speaker 2:** So the legislative intent was, I think, well, like a lot of things, well-intended, but maybe this didn't quite hit the mark. So what I wanted to talk about tonight was whether there might be some interest in the upcoming legislative session, really making sure that we're sharpening up how we can address this. There may be a lot of ways to address it. It may be making that email and notary public loan. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. There may be that email and notice and email or notice. It could be that the and becomes an or, and then you have a few options. It may be the case that you try to find a way to allow the legislation to enable municipalities to recruit that cost. That may feel like the camel getting its nose in the tent a little bit. So, anyway, there's just a lot of different options. So if you have... But I wanted to mention that this is the conversation I've been having in preparation for tonight, and I wanted to just sort of share that info with you.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** How would we start that process? Write you a letter and say, please present this to the next session?

**Speaker 2:** I mean, so it's sort of starting now, if people are interested. It doesn't have to be formal. There doesn't have to be a – but a town can do something like that to say, this is an issue for us. Yes. And that just allows legislators to do what they need to do, which is represent – I'll add one little quick comment that I looked at the – there was a roll call on this act, and it was 92 to 44. I was like, well, who said no? It was interesting to see. So my predecessor, Nelson Brownell of Poundwood, representing Stamford, he said no. Nelson's been a lot of years on the team, activities. He saw the issues with it. Representative Sebelia in Dover said no. Representative Roberts, who was Halifax, Whitingham, and Wilmington. So this whole area was pretty clear. And I think that the rural caucus, which is a group of legislators from rural parts of the state, which Representative Sebelia chairs, is a natural ally. And we can sort of begin to send this around to them and say, hey, here's something – because this is about the time of year when people begin to think about what they want to do in the next session. Obviously, there's an election, and that matters. But the point is that you just at least put that out there. So people can begin thinking about, am I seeing that from towns in my district as well? I doubt that if this is a problem in Stamford, that this is a problem anywhere but Stamford. So it's a matter of finding who also feels uncomfortable with this.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I think there's a lot of – not a lot, but many delinquent tax collectors that are older and do this for part-time. And I know we did not feel comfortable going here. At first, I thought, oh, yeah, that's no problem. Then you think – you hear on the news – with these shootings, people turn around in your driveway, and yeah, that's not good. That's not safe for any of us.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Drew Ridge? No, that was the governor that showed up at your house.

**Speaker 5:** Yeah.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Well, you know, you weren't even elected when this was passed, correct? So we were not going to beat up the messenger desk for sure. Right, right. But it's not just about the safety. It's liability. The state has done more than just one thing that they force us to do something they don't compensate us. Right. If you were to go back to the legislature and say what our concerns were, I would not want a hand order. Most of these people that can't afford their taxes and are in arrears are having big problems. They might not even have an internet service anymore. Right. You know, to go up to these people in those times, they've already been contacting for the last two years before this happens by members of the town. So contacting them is not a problem, or if it was, it still is. Right. I would like to be compensated for what it costs. Now, I'm not saying that we're going to be compensating where we're going to hire a guy at $100 an hour, but we should be able to call law enforcement and be compensated, whether it's state troopers, which they should just come down and help us for free because we're already paying them, and we very rarely get service from them. Not to pick on them, but we're staffers, okay? They don't spend a lot of time out here. We already found we can't afford or we chose not to have a contract with them. We don't have to have a contract with the sheriffs for three hours a week. It's just not feasible for us. So we should definitely be able to call up law enforcement and protect the citizens of Stamford. We don't ask much from the state at all, at all. You don't ever hear us calling you. Am I correct? Not at all. Especially this board. I think this is the second time I've ever met you. Yeah, that's true. Okay? Our last representative I never met at all, the longer we did. My question. I have one question while I've got your ear. When these legislations come up, you always hear about them, correct? No, sir. If there's a bill that is presented, you always hear about them. Yeah. Okay? So if there's a bill that comes up, and you're representing us, and when I say us, I'm going to say, where is it? Bennington County? I mean, how far do you reach out?

**Speaker 2:** Oh, so it's five towns. I'm staying over at Greensboro, Searsburg, Woodford.

**Speaker 6:** And you get one vote.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** You get one vote on that, just like when they ask for these votes, et cetera. If there's a roll call, yeah. Okay. So you get to go and speak and vote, correct? Yeah. All right. So how do you know what your constituents want?

**Speaker 2:** Okay. So bigger picture question. So we're sort of not on. Sorry. Yeah, that's okay. I mean, there's maybe 1,200 bills a year. Yeah. And so there's a lot. We rely on our committees and jurisdictions. We rely on the legislature. We rely on the legislature. We rely on our committees and jurisdictions to really dig into the details and let us know, here's why this is a great idea. Here's why this is not. It was interesting to see Mr. O'Toole's testimony, which he gave in February, looked a lot more like the final bill than what it was looking like when he gave his testimony. So a lot of his input made a difference. So we spend a lot of time hearing from committee chairs or committee representatives who are saying, here's where things are with us. Like a lot of things. You've got to be curious. You have to want to know. Sometimes you miss all of this or something along those lines. You miss a bill. You miss this section. In fact, this past session, this section of the statute was touched again to raise the threshold, to establish a threshold where you couldn't do taxes until someone owes $1,500. Right. Right. Yeah. That was new. Because they didn't want people losing everything over a $400 bill. But the point is that was in the education bill. So we're not going to be able to do that. We're going to be able to do that. And so we're going to have to do that. And so we're going to have to do that. And so we're going to have to do that. And so we're going to have to do that. So that was in one page of a 120-page monster. And so sometimes it's hard to catch all those little bits. However, the process is slow. It takes months for bills to get through. I think that legislators will have an opportunity to hear if something comes up that's big. Can you flag this for us? You talk to some of the attorneys that help legislators shape the bills. They're called legislative councils, people that have an area of statute expertise. There's one version for the education stuff. There's one version for the tax stuff. And you try to figure out questions you may have. You bring it back to the public. And sometimes it's hard to give every single bill the same kind of setting.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Is there a place where the general public can almost like go to and, you know, what is that? Online.

**Speaker 2:** Legislature.Vermont.gov.

It goes through the process of where it is. It's really comprehensive.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Kind of like the media almost. In the 1500, are they working on reducing that?

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** That would mean land like we have Alphamaw Lots. And how many years? You're different.

**Speaker 1:** If I could make an adjustment and said there's no building on the property, they waived that requirement. Oh, okay, good. If there's a building, it still stays. Okay, all right, that makes sense.

**Speaker 2:** And I think early versions of the legislation, that exact issue came up where it might take 30 years for it to actually become actionable. So they pulled that, they added some numbers, they moved things around. But it's interesting in the legislature, everything seems so formal. Everything seems so set. And then it turns out there's just erasers on all these pencils. And people can adjust things. And that's sort of... Sometimes it's the case where do we make it perfect in this session? We just have these 19 weeks. And we're not even close to one big happy family. And can we get some things done and then fix it if we find a problem? Now, that can bite you when there are some problems that you didn't anticipate. A lot of blowback can take place that you thought was not going to be the issue. So we try to be as... I mean, it's imperfect. Like any cooperation of people, it's imperfect. But where these things arise, it becomes really helpful for municipalities. To sort of have these close conversations with elected officials to say, well, let's... This is a big problem for us. And the Vermont League of Cities and Towns, by and large, you hear from when people want things. We want this. It can be hard to get the same amount of attention for, you know, where was one little town down at the very southern end of the state? And this is a problem for us. It's not always easy to elevate that same thing. You know, it's a kind of Horton, here's a who moment. And it can work out. If you're not going to switch.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Jonathan, one more. Well, I lied. When I say one more question, that's... But if a town does... So this is a mandate that we have to do. If we don't do it, so we've already been told by the person that usually does this. They're not going to.

They're not safe enough. They don't feel safe enough.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I see.

What happens?

**Speaker 2:** What does the state do in the town? I don't think the state's got so much of an iron fist. But I'm not... That's a law. I actually don't know.

**Speaker 7:** It might void the tax sale.

**Speaker 1:** That could be it. We spoke with the attorney today. And he said that you will not have a tax sale if you won't do it. Oh, yeah. I see. So you have to take... It doesn't seem to do this.

**Speaker 2:** But you have to take a picture when you put the notice on the door. Because how can you prove that you did it? So I think that is the goal. The idea is to have as many of these not fall through as possible. AI. Yeah. That's good. No comment. Okay. So... When I was a kid, I used to go to school. I used to go to school.

I used to go to school. I used to go to school. I used to go to school. I used to go to school. So now I need to go to school. Okay. Yeah. So... What else would you like to talk to... I think we've come to that. That was my main concern. Tax sale. That was the big thing that I wasn't prepared to talk about. And there's no other issues.

**Speaker 2:** I understand how you jump in if there's questions you do have.

**Speaker 8:** I have a question. Okay. So how do you communicate with your constituents, you know, periodically throughout the school the year so that we have an idea of what you and the legislature is doing so one

**Speaker 2:** of the things so I've tried to do a number of things is also more there's sort of the minimum be at town meetings they're all on the same night but at least a little bit staggering you know this Yankee cannonball whipping through starting his work for getting back the and then at those at those meetings reports that people have a mid-year report here's what things are trying to give folks a sense of I think that this stuff in 181 is going to be repealed it looks like you know this element of the education buy-down tax will be somewhere in the hundred million dollar range really giving people as much of a crystal ball as you can and then events at office hours a little more consistently last year where it was the Stamford library on let's say it's the third Saturday of the month you know at 11 o'clock the at the Reedsboro General Store that at 930 as many of you know my wife and I have twins and so that was in December of 2025 so my weekends my Saturdays was a little tougher to come home on Friday and then just be out the door on Saturday with some of these civic engagements but that's really events and Yankee coming to select board meetings you know this are another important way that people make updates what's going on in the legislature and you know if I can interview scheduled the Deerfield Valley News tomorrow so there's just trying to be in as many places as you can it seems like the goal is to never stop talking them but I just need to stop talking once in a while

**Speaker 8:** but now is a good time but what what what needs to happen is that of course you need to be available to listen to us and so those events that you are doing, the Reedsboro General Store, the library, you said. I mean, will you be doing those things?

**Speaker 2:** Yeah, that was important for me to spend some time, you know, sort of setting the family in the first year of this, you know, the last eight months. How long is your term? It's two years. So yeah, everything except, I think, Attorney General, or like, state's attorneys are two-year terms, sort of, in the sheriff's. So you see a lot of turnover. There'll be a lot more turnover this year as well. So it's also one of those interesting things where part of the beginning of each session is getting to know a bunch of new people. A lot of people are not returning after some time in the legislature, so we'll probably have 40, at least 40 new members out of 150 or so. But anyhow, the answer to that is yes. One of the, I think one of the, I don't, it seems like every legislator seems to do it a little bit differently. Some people send out three emails, you know, every two months to send something out. Some people will have, I think, Kathleen James of Manchester, had four coffee hours. You know, when you try to, some districts are the size of a few city blocks, some are 192 square miles, and you try to get what you can get. So that's something that I think you can always do a better job of letting people know where you'll be, but it's important to be out there. And it is, I think, eventually coming to sub board meetings is another way of just hearing from people, talking and hearing and listening is the part that legislators need to

be more willing to do.

**Speaker 2:** Cancel.

**Speaker 9:** The, um, Beth, you have another question for me? It was a different topic, but, um, I was more on the school board type stuff. So, one of the largest items on our school board, on our school budget is the healthcare insurance. And I'm wondering what the legislature still needs to try to tackle that. Get to the root cause of it and tackle it.

**Speaker 2:** Yeah, it's, so I think Vermont's healthcare premiums are the highest in the country. It's $8.50 a month, I think, is what our number is. And then if you live over in New Hampshire, it's like a third of that. If that at all. So we're trying to figure out how did it get here and how do we, how do we move off of numbers that are not affordable for people? Um, and my guess is that we'll be focusing a lot on this and the healthcare committee, and then at large, it's impacting our school budgets. It's impacting household incomes, every employer straining under it. So I don't know where that came from. I have no idea why it is the way that it is, but it looks like, you know, we've been very, we've empowered the Green Mountain Care Board to take some steps to really rein in. We value UBN Health Network. It's a teaching hospital. Teaching hospitals cost the public more because they have to provide certain educational elements that broader hospitals do not. And so that, in a small state, we're from that broad state.

**Speaker 9:** How big is the pharmaceutical lobby in the state? I mean, how much pressure do they put in there to allow this to happen?

**Speaker 2:** You know, I mean, there's, I think we, they don't seem, big, but I think good lobbies, good lobbyists make themselves seem smaller than they are. Um, I, I don't hear from them too often because my work is in commerce and economic development. So that's, so I'm hearing from lobbyists who are affiliated with Meta and whatnot. I do think that, you know, the Vermont Association of Healthcare Systems, the hospital sort of association, they have a lobbyist. We hear a lot from her. I think that where we tried to implement reference-based pricing, which was, a way to rein in some of the hospital spending on being able to charge 8,000 bucks for, you know, a sort of generic medication while you're in the hospital, um, we were able to bring that down a little bit. We're hopeful that that will be saving us tens of millions of dollars a year, but we need to be looking at saving hundreds of millions of dollars a year because it's, I mean, it's something that everyone's alarmed by, not just legislators, not just school members, everybody. I don't know if that means more to come, honestly. More to come.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Any other questions for Mr. Cooper?

**Speaker 3:** I do. You're up for a re-election, correct? Yeah. So your opponent, what, I haven't seen much about him, and I know you, you probably know your strengths and his weaknesses, vice versa. I'd really like to know.

**Speaker 2:** What I know, so Charles Jewett is his name. Charles lives in Palma, like I do. He lives around the corner from me, um, and so what I know about him, mostly he's just, I know what color, he drives. And, you know, I think that his campaign is his thing, and, um, I, you know, I've enjoyed talking to him. We've walked, not quite together, but whenever you go to the Weeksboro 4th of July parade, they, they, they put you together. Put you together. Yes, you were, yesterday. Hey Charlie, how we doing? Yep. Um, so, you know, we've had some exchange pleasantries, um, and I think, you know, that his campaign is, I haven't spent a lot of time focusing on it. Okay. So I'm sort of trying to talk a little about what I'm up to, what I look forward to doing, and why I'm, why I love this work. Um, I'm not trying to make this into a softball where I just talk about me more, because your question is about Charlie. I just don't know much about him.

**Speaker 3:** Well, I mean, normally, normally candidates know their strengths over another person. I'm just curious, because I haven't been able to find much about him, so you as a candidate should know who you're up against.

**Speaker 2:** I, I don't know, to be honest, um, some candidates really take care of their campaigning in a very personal way. Like they may be doing all the door knocking in the world, and you wouldn't know, because they're not knocking on your door. That's because you're afraid to go over it. Yeah, yeah. Take it out.

**Speaker 10:** Because they post it for us.

**Speaker 2:** I think it is important to, um, to let Mr. Jewett, you know, speak for his own campaign, and it's, um, but I know that it's hard to do. It feels odd going into strangers' houses. But if it feels weird going into their houses, it's gonna feel weird. How are you going to be able to advocate for people around people that you don't know among people? And that was something that I challenged myself with. I felt like I was back in the Boy Scouts doing the canned food drive at first, just scared to go up to the doors and knock. But it, you know, you get used to it. Any time it's your first campaign, I think it is Mr. Jewett's first campaign, you get past, you have to get out of that phase, and that, you know, that's, um, that is a phase.

**Speaker 8:** I have one more comment. So, I mean, I'm, I'm, I was on the Select Board. I'm now on the Planning Commission. Um, and right now, I'm thinking, just because it's easy and I can bring it up, of Act 181. Um, I honestly actually think, um, from what I've seen from you since you've been involved in politics, um, I feel like you are a great listener. And I feel like you truly want to do, um, a lot of things. Um, I feel like you are a great listener. And I feel like you truly want to do, um, a lot of things. Um, I feel like you are a great listener. And I feel like you truly want to do, um, a lot of things. Um, I feel like you truly want to do, um, a lot of things. Um, I feel like you truly want to do, um, a lot of things. Um, I feel like you truly want to do, um, a lot of things. Um, I feel like you truly want to do, um, a lot of things. Um, I feel like you truly want to do, um, a lot of things. Um, I feel like you truly want to do, um, a lot of things.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Um, I feel like you truly want to do, um, a lot of things.

**Speaker 8:** Um, I feel like you truly want to do, um, a lot of things.

Um, I feel like you truly want to do, um, a lot of things.

**Speaker 8:** Um, I feel like you truly want to do, um, a lot of things. Um, I feel like you truly want to do, um, a lot of things. and Act 181 would be a good example of it, the push for building new homes, the regional planning commissions, because it appears that there is a big disconnect between the regional planning commissions and the people who are making these rules and changes and the people. And I feel like the distance between the people, us, and these larger regional planning commissions and people who are making big changes that have all kinds of fallout, it's not good. I feel like people feel like they are not being listened to, and they are not being understood. They're not being included.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Well, that's the thing with government, is it's supposed to be for the weak, not the strong. Right. And when we are, what, 800 residents? Yeah, yeah. If you ask the legislators if they know where Stamford, Vermont is, they probably will still say yes, but they haven't been there. And that's the thing. They represent both big. Yeah. It's all about votes. You know, we talk about health care and insurances and all that. It's all about votes. You want to get rid of all these problems, you get rid of the lobbyists, and you'll get rid of all your problems. That's your biggest problem right there. But, you know, Pam's right. You're both right. I mean, we have a Euro representative, and what's Bradwell or Burlington have for representatives? So Burlington's going to vote, and here we set up Jonathan. I just. I disagree. It's going to be very, and it's like that math from Boston versus Berkeley County, you know.

**Speaker 8:** But the thing is, you know, of course you know this. You're here to represent us. You're here to listen to us. You're here to represent us. And there can't, there can't be such a big disconnect between what the government and large regional planning commissions think about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the people on the ground. And so, you know, you need to find a way to try to bridge that. Because we shouldn't be, we shouldn't be surprised and taken aback and upset or whatever about things that are happening.

Things that have happened. Yeah. That also applies to the state education support district that they're planning to. Yeah.

**Speaker 9:** We're going to be some tiny little boys out in Brattleboro somewhere and they got all these big leagues out in Brattleboro, we'll be nobody, we won't have much of a say when that happens.

I'll try to respond to kind of both of those. They're similar, that's why I wanted to throw that in there.

**Speaker 2:** I think that it is, we have this experience that we've had, just going back 30 years to when the Brigham decision in the Vermont Supreme Court ruled that you can't just let towns decide it themselves for their school budgets. And there was, I mean, that's a pretty big hit on the concept of local control. And we had to create this whole new system that almost nobody can understand. The cost of fortune. The cost of fortune, that people can't really feel that they're getting good and clear answers on. Also that we can meet the constitutional imperative to provide equal opportunities to access education. But the math hasn't gotten any better. It's not like-

**Speaker 11:** Do you feel Brigham?

**Speaker 2:** And that's one of those, is it right for another decision? You know, the point was just that, if you look at 1996, the year before Brigham, the difference between the five highest spending districts and the five lowest spending districts was a little closer, just a little closer than it is now. It's gotten a little bit worse, even adding in this whole system that's meant to make things more equal. I, part of that bridge building that you mentioned, as just for full transparency, I work at a regional planning commission. I've been at the BCRC now for just over ten years. And it's been a weird time for regional planning commissions. We're not used to being in the paper. We're not used to having people be bad at us. What we're used to doing is going to meetings and talking to people about the things that the meeting is about. And listening to people tell us about what they want for the future of their towns. And trying to get it right, and square it with whatever the state statutes are. And not everybody always has the best user experience. One of the challenges with Act 181 was that it meant a whole new way of thinking about Act 250. And it really did mean like a lot of signature, what you might call keystone legislation. You're going to have to figure it out as you're going along, because some things didn't get fixed or addressed on the first pass in statute. Because the legislators that are making these laws are not the planners who are doing the planning, so some stuff gets missed. Not every shop in the state interpreted 181 the same way. And that is the exact kind of inconsistency that we have. And that is the exact kind of inconsistency that we have. And that is the exact kind of inconsistency that we need to avoid. One really kinda quick history lesson, because I love planning. It is what I chose to do with my career. One time ago one hundred years ago in New York, Robert Moses was the most powerful man in New York City. He was the planner. And he kinda got himself onto all of these boards, panels. The unelected positions where he could just do what he wanted. And one of the things that he wanted to do was to ensure

that certain people in New York City could get to the swimming pools, and certain other people couldn't. They would be right next door.

**Speaker 2:** but there's no, that road, that street dead ends there. There's no, so now kids have to walk four miles to get around to a pool that's less than a half a mile away as the crow flies. Our profession was ashamed of that manipulation of public power and the betrayal of public trust. Because everybody was paying in for those points. So, over the years I think planning has attempted to be very engaging, really focused on public input, attempting to bring up public input, but it's hard to ask people to come to meetings when they're supposed to be having dinner, which we're all supposed to be having, and sit in chairs that maybe aren't the most comfortable chairs in the world, and talk about what they want to see here, there, everywhere, and maybe it's just leave us alone is what we want to see. That tension I think will often be there. I mean, we got, I think, 900 kids to participate in the Bennington Town Plan, but what they wanted to see in Bennington, their hometown, in 50 years. It was really exciting. It's hard to replicate that everywhere. You end up gravitating towards your biggest population centers, but the obligation is to the entire region. So, I think the legislature will be taking a pretty close look at how this rolled out. The process in which the regional plan is adopted requires approval by a new body, the Land Issue Review Board. One entity had submitted a regional plan, and the Land Issue Review Board sent a pretty strong letter back that they thought it was not where it needed to be. So, that system is looking out for people at that local level, and the last point I'll make is that right around now, fingers crossed, the Bennington County Regional Commission's regional plan is being adopted by the commissioners in Arlington, which would be a good thing to see, because that was a lot of work, and I would love it if it sailed on to its next destination with the Land Issue Review Board. Anyhow, that's.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** One other thing, too. That's going to affect a lot of towns is the mandate that the towns are going to have to re-appraise every six-year cycle. Who's going to do the re-appraisal? I mean, we have scheduled one, and just an estimate for the one that's coming up in 2032, a little bit less than $100,000. How are the towns going to afford this?

**Speaker 2:** This is important to talk about, because that is, we tell people they've got to do it every six years,

**Speaker 10:** and now it's not what we're supposed to do with that.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** It's the same mandate.

**Speaker 12:** You've got to do it.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Well, how are we going to do it?

**Speaker 2:** So I think that the state has an obligation to help figure that out somehow. And so that's something else we should be sure to talk about, to give clarity to towns, to our smaller towns. Here's how this is not going to break it back. Because as it is right now, it seems like that's a little too much, a little too often.

**Speaker 13:** I had that conversation. So the conversation was just about that. We were talking about taxes and stuff like that. Can't the regional commission, because of that, not being able to afford reappraisal every six years, could that be treated sort of like the and the bylaws with the, you know, being able to get a grant to do that? That was my first question.

I'm glad you got it. OK. I'll let you say it. My second question is, speaking on grants and stuff,

**Speaker 13:** we had had a conversation a couple, a few times about playground equipment and stuff. And I know you know where the condition of the playground by the insurance companies, two different insurance companies or something. Yeah, we did talk. So that's where we're at here. And I know our principal here is interested in ..

**Speaker 2:** So I'll start with that last part. We'll talk. So the building community's grants, educational facilities grant, there's a deadline upcoming for that.

The regional planning commission can assist with an application. It's dollar for dollar at the $25,000 for something like playground equipment. That's an eligible expenditure. So I'd be happy to, in my professional day job role, have that conversation.

**Speaker 2:** We can put something together in the next two weeks that would be the end of the application .. All right. OK. So the previous thing that you mentioned around appraisal, regionalization is kind of something that the legislature is very much thinking about. There was a task force that was supposed to examine how that would look. That was, again, part of that government operations committee in the House and Senate. Elections have consequences. The 2024 election saw a lot of turnover. And some of the people that were spearheading that were been appointed to run that were voted out of office. So we just, that kind of needed to take a break for a second. But that's still. That's still something that's been examined consistently over the years, as you don't want to do these things impulsively. You want to take your time. But that is something I think that people are talking about. Is regionalization an area where appraisals can become, soften that, give a bigger bite of business to the entity that can then handle it at a broader rate? I expect that those conversations will pick back up a little more earnestly after this new election, because I think some of the people that are expected to be in leadership positions in those committees are people that really care about that and have the energy to keep those task force meetings on track.

Any other questions for Representative Cooper?

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** About 400, but we're not going to do it all tonight.

I'll stick around for a while. If people want to chat, maybe I'll be here. OK. Thank you. Thank you. Next, hearing of visitors, Mary Lou Wright. Thank you. May I?

**Speaker 14:** Can I give this information to you? Oh, yeah. OK. I'm here regarding the Green Mountain Hometown Heroes. I would like to see about getting veterans banners put up in our town. They're all over southern Vermont. They're in Reedsboro, Pownall, Arlington, Shaftesbury. These are the rules and regulations. The town will have no expense in this at all. This is all put on. I'm the sponsor, the person purchasing this band, and it may take over a year to get this done. I'm willing to take people's orders. I do have applications if someone wants it. I'm basically looking for permission to do this from the town.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Do you have a group that's working with you that?

**Speaker 5:** So far, it's just me.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I've been reading about it downtown. I know. It's everywhere. Yeah. I have one question, one question only. OK. The power company that's the holdup down there, one of the holdups that they were talking about says you can't do it. But I've seen American flags go up and everything. I've actually emailed one of the towns, I won't say the town, that's kind of holding things up down there in support of this.

**Speaker 14:** Well, my last page here is the email to the Green Mountain Tower, and they said any requests have to come from the select board. OK.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** OK. Do you have a group that's going to put them up and take them down in two years? That I don't know.

**Speaker 14:** I don't know that, yeah.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Other than that, I support it 100%. I'm just, even if they said no, I just, as a board member, we can't give you the permission to break the law. I understand, yeah. But I'm saying, as a person, I support it 100%, and I would love to see it go up, but I don't feel that Green Mountain's good to you. I don't want to hold you up. But if we need to request something, let us know how we go about doing that.

**Speaker 14:** Because they're up through seven.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Yeah, well, I think they say that, and it may be for insurance purposes, I don't know. But we put our American flags up on that every year. Reese Burrell has done it, I've seen it. And same thing with Massachusetts, they've been doing it all over the place. I think it's a great idea, I don't see any negative at all to it. So. I have no problem giving them a go at it.

**Speaker 14:** And if you want to discuss this and get back to me, I mean, I'm not, I don't expect an answer right now. But if I get a green light from you, I will move forward. And the other concern I have regarding this is making sure people are aware that this is going to be happening. With the program in North Adams, that was all done on Facebook.

**Speaker 15:** Yeah.

**Speaker 14:** And a lot of people. I guess they have over a hundred applications now to add to North Adams.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Yeah. It's awesome.

**Speaker 14:** So, you know, I really want to make sure that no one is left behind or unaware.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Do we have a representative in Southern, a lot of them say, I know we do in Southern, in Stamford we don't though. No. For veterans. No. Nothing, right? I know Reese Burrell does, correct? No. They don't anymore?

**Speaker 5:** Okay.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** The. They do on the region up there though, right?

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** The North Adams fellow. Kurt's direction. Yes. Very helpful. So. He is. He's not supposed to come into Vermont, but he talks to Vermont. Yeah.

**Speaker 16:** Okay.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Because my uncle Ed down here, he's really involved in it too. And if we needed to get some guidance, I'm sure they would go into it. So.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Representative Cooper, do you know anything about the hometown veteran banners? Can they be put on the state highways? That was what I was told years ago. Years ago. But I don't know. Like I said, drag right up from Southern, right through. They're in Bennington. You know that. They're in Bennington, in the town. Yep. And they're on, and they're up on Southern Town Hall.

**Speaker 2:** Like, just if you're, if you're not in the center of town, you can still see some a little farther up.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** How far?

**Speaker 10:** Is that on the state highway?

**Speaker 2:** Yeah. It's right around Southern. Okay. I think I have that. I have seen them. Personally, I think that they're just doing it, and I don't think the power company's going to come into it. Okay.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Okay. Okay. Okay. Well, I didn't know if the state was going to take them down if they're on the state

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** highway, and I don't...

You know, I just, you know, I, I just need to... I say go ahead and look into it more.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I would have no problem with doing that, to request it. Let us know what we have to do to request it.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** It says a letter here. The letter that we can go forward with that. To come. One of the...

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Okay. Okay.

**Speaker 14:** Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Thank you. All right. Well, that's it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Thank you.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Thank you. Thank you.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Thank you. Thank you. When is it possible, though, a way to put it on the website, or?

Well, that's what I'm saying.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Publish it everywhere. Yeah. The two...

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Stamps. Facebook.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** You'll get it on time.

Yeah, I would certainly do that. Yeah.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** That'll fill 90% of the people that don't.

**Speaker 15:** So I can go ahead and proceed to, you know, it's going to take well over a year.

**Speaker 14:** Oh, definitely. Yeah.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I mean, I would say as long as there's no law being broken, I would give 100%.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I think the first thing we have to do is write to...