--- title: "Stamford Select Board — June 5, 2025" date: 2025-06-05 session: regular speaker_labels: 1 cluster(s) named from the roll call and that meeting's chair in the minutes, 1 named from roster attendance, 12 of 14 clusters unnamed voice_ids: {"SPEAKER_00":83,"SPEAKER_01":84,"SPEAKER_02":2,"SPEAKER_03":9,"SPEAKER_04":5,"SPEAKER_05":85,"SPEAKER_07":10,"SPEAKER_08":3,"SPEAKER_09":35,"SPEAKER_10":7,"SPEAKER_11":1,"SPEAKER_12":15,"SPEAKER_13":22,"SPEAKER_14":8} duration_min: 104 audio: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diUNiM2HyTc audio_source: YouTube (@jgramlin78) minutes: https://townofstamfordvermont.org/mediaItems/Sbd%20Minutes%206-5-25.pdf minutes_pending: false present: [Nancy L. Bushika, Michael G. Denault, Douglas Wright] absent: [Kurt Gamari, John Dunn] transcribed: 2026-10-12 (faster-whisper large-v3, CUDA; names corrected per data/name_fixes.json) diarization: pyannote/speaker-diarization-3.1 (automated; cluster labels may over-split a single voice; unattributed paragraphs have no reliable speaker) --- # Stamford Select Board — June 5, 2025 **Session:** Regular · **Duration:** 104 min · [Audio](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diUNiM2HyTc) · [Minutes](https://townofstamfordvermont.org/mediaItems/Sbd%20Minutes%206-5-25.pdf) **Present:** Nancy L. Bushika, Michael G. Denault, Douglas Wright **Absent:** Kurt Gamari, John Dunn --- **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** You ready? Yes. Oh, that's going to hurt me now. No. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Stamford Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, **Speaker 1:** and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Welcome to a meeting of the Stamford Select Board. If you have a matter to discuss that is not included on the agenda, you may do so by addressing the chairperson and stating your name and address. You will notice that our meetings are recorded, and this is to aid with the summarization of the minutes. Visitors are welcome, and we allow five minutes of comments per visitor and 15 minutes per topic. Discussions will be held in a calm and civilized manner and respectful of others. Select Board members present are... **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Michael G. Denault. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Nancy Bushika. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Douglas Wright. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Will there be any adding of items or removing of items from tonight's meeting? On tonight's agenda. **Speaker 2:** I have additional questions. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** No, just old as this. **Speaker 2:** Will there be any adjustments to the agenda, **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** such as changing the order of items? And Jeb is recording tonight's meeting for his YouTube video. **Speaker 3:** Okay. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** First on the agenda is Bennington County Solid Waste Alliance, and Scott is here from the BCRC. Hi, Scott. **Speaker 4:** How are you? **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Scott Grim-Lyons. **Speaker 5:** Yes. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** And he is here to talk about our solid waste implementation plan. That we have to approve every 10 years? **Speaker 5:** Five years. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Five years. **Speaker 5:** Five year cycle. So every five years, the state updates their materials management plan, and then at the local level, we have to react to that and update our current plans so that everything meets current state requirements. So what the Bennington County Solid Waste Alliance is doing, we have to update our current plans. So what the Bennington County Solid Waste Alliance is doing, our new project, our next strong macro-offensive action system, how do you assess weighted carbon spending? So a question I had been asking to some of the leads was through your presentation, how do you see all these efforts going away? I think the number one priority is in our expenses management diagram. And what's happening here is various supermarket alliances is a standard is one of 15 towns that are all part of an interlocal contracts to share services related to solid-waste, largely, solid-waste education, solid-waste outreach, teaching, you know, towns and um transfer stations uh be compliant uh with um with those sort of state laws so um what this plan does is outlines how we how we expect to spend the next five years in order to meet all the state requirements and to keep the budget uh as low as possible when it comes to uh creating a um managing as always for the area and meeting state requirements related to these things um the plan itself is fairly formulaic uh the state gives us a template um and a lot of it is us kind of just doing uh division and a little bit of math figuring out um how many businesses we need to visit a year how many um etc you know uh how many how many how do we meet these requirements that the states basically set out um and then uh you know i'm just here kind of to um choose it to let you guys know that you know i'm here and um solid waste alliance is is accountable to the people of stamford and um if you guys have any questions about the way we operate and uh you know this is sort of our next five years planning planning of operation and i'm happy to uh you know **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** talk with uh talk with everyone about this um as stat said there's 13 towns we formed an alliance **Speaker 5:** probably 10 15 years ago about 2004 i'm 2014 excuse me **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** we the town of stamford could not do this on our own because there's so many laws and rules and just having the solid waste has helped the household solid waste day cost how the town could not afford at least ten thousand dollars and we were gonna have to have two a year and now it was up to three a year so uh we we can't do it alone that's why all these small towns formed this alliance with the bcrc implementing **Speaker 5:** all this right and there are a number of small towns that are also uh you know are part of this too so small towns like rupert and you know dorset and um stamford um are all um you know some of our smaller member towns uh all of our budget is paid for based on proportional to population size so um you guys have actually you guys have a uh smaller portion of our budget yes you guys are about five percent because you guys are about five percent of the population so um yeah so uh other questions from the select board and i can ask of course from the public **Speaker 6:** because since there was one municipal sewer or this is recycling trash paint cans um hazardous **Speaker 5:** household hazards yeah and so everyone here has the ability um you know on uh mondays we operate a household hazardous waste collection facility at the town of bennington transfer station uh folks are um able to come it's five dollars per citizen to uh dispose of up to 15 gallons of you know paint uh bleach chemicals antifreeze whatever you got uh in your garage or uh you know um underneath your sink that you're looking to get rid of um you know we make sure that stuff is collected properly it doesn't uh go to the landfill it doesn't end up in our water in our water system um and uh what gets recycled we can recycle what needs to be incinerated be incinerated and use it on mondays uh between every monday every monday between uh yeah so we opened up a permit facility we used to have one day uh a year we'd have an event in reedsboro um one day a year we'd have an event in georgia one day a year we haven't been in bennington but uh what we did recently is we uh we got a grant from the state we got a big locker trailer uh we set up uh you know about a quarter acre space at the bank transfer station that's just for us we manage that and uh all those all the citizens are welcome to come and uh we're going to have a great time come on Mondays and drop off we're open between 9 30 a.m. and 4 p.m. and you can **Speaker 4:** go to our website yeah that's what I'm just going to say go on their website **Speaker 7:** BC our website or and any other questions you have about trash disposal **Speaker 5:** where to get rid of stuff managing our website is also part of our **Speaker 8:** Pam had a question a real estate agent you know when people sell their homes they have to be cleaned out and you know I go in and I find in people's homes where children are present really really people have people have chemicals from the 40s the 50s I mean really bad bad stuff in their home and it's really dangerous so I just want to advocate for people to take advantage of this thing you keep doing it and people take advantage and really just get this stuff and get it disposed of get out of your house and get it and you can carpool I **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** mean $5 maybe you have only a couple paint cans or you know ask your neighbor and **Speaker 5:** whoever's going to Bennington make an appointment and if you have an old house and you have something that looks like a light bulb full of liquid hanging above your boiler you want to dispose of that carefully that's carbon checker fluoride that's basically mustard gas if that drops so it will put the fire out if your you know boiler catches on fire but it will also knock anyone around any other questions for Scott so you have **Speaker 7:** the plan with you tonight or does Laurie have the plan is right here basically I **Speaker 5:** just need an action by the select board to say we approve the plan and I can get a copy of the minutes that say that or I can have the signature sheet that I **Speaker 4:** shared earlier yeah what is my they have a motion to motion say okay all in favor **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** aye Aye approve the plan for another five years thank you very much it goes by very fast thank you Scott **Speaker 5:** thank you **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** alright uh it's pretty entertaining right um hearing the visitors then C.J. **Speaker 6:** I have a couple three I have to commend Dave on the back roads I drive Klondike Road and county roads everyday now and this is the wedding part spring i remember and those girls absolutely number two is for mr wright i'm curious about the call to the fire marshal when you called how did you introduce yourself at some point i gave **Speaker 9:** him my name where i lived where i came from at some point i did mention i was on the select board in town the big question seems to be did i ask them to come down and i did not in fact uh that's not my question i did mention that i was like board member i did not say that i was i don't know i can't speak for an assumption i can't speak for an assumption well i'm wondering **Speaker 6:** if i called him i don't know i don't know again that's speculation too it is speculation but then it's something more than sure but in the light of the current i think with the new where someone might represent themselves as a board member whether intentionally or not and not clarify that that can then be discussed in his actual session and the people of the town will never know what transpired if the if the person was clear if the person was spoken to uh so i think i would like if you can i don't know if you can add to them minutes after that issue is resolved of the executive session i think should be made public so that there's transparency in town and everybody knows either the person was in the right or the **Speaker 9:** person was in the wrong can i ask you a question i don't know i don't know what mr jacobowski told you i have not talked to him okay well then everything you're getting is what you've heard **Speaker 10:** so let me point this out everything i got was from you at the selection that's the only information i had i did **Speaker 9:** that i called again i did not say i was calling on behalf i did tell him all i wanted was the information was their permits that's all and if he said yeah it would have entered there if he said no then i would have come back and mentioned it to the rest of the board that's the sad part this whole thing is just kind of marked i hoped it could be settled by calling and i've asked and i think that'll be verified on some of the videotapes i did ask a couple questions regarding the place up there regarding the church more specifically and i was told no that's that's a state thing we don't deal with it so where's the logical place you go for information to the state and that was my intention and that's okay let me finish if he decided to come down i don't know if he told you or told anybody else i did call him back and tell him i made a second call i left the message i hopefully he got it and i said all i wanted to know was is there a permit there was no need for him to come down so to say i called him down is not accurate we can speculate all day about what he thought what he thought i'm responsible for what i say but i'm not always responsible for how people take it **Speaker 6:** you're also responsible for it don't well we can go back so in the two meetings that i've watched i have not seen you apologize at all for the miscommunication and i think you owe no i don't **Speaker 9:** i don't believe i regret that it happened i regret that it blew up to this okay but i was asking no wait a minute but i was acting in good faith i was not trying you can disagree i was acting in good faith i was trying to keep it at a minimum we did have an instance where somebody came and spoke to you hopefully i would use better decorum than they did but look we're going to go back and look what it turned into you know the incident so that's where i'm going to look at it that's **Speaker 11:** and people can conclude what they want but it goes back to it goes back to **Speaker 8:** um a member of the board acting alone as opposed to a member of the board acting with the board so when i was on the board many times there were discussions between the five of us we had an issue it might have been about the windmills it might have been about something we always we always talked amongst ourselves and said who's going to make the phone call and it was a joint decision to make a phone call in order to do something as opposed to one board member deciding that they were going to take it upon themselves behind everyone's back **Speaker 11:** and represent themselves as a select board member i don't believe that was the intent can i respond **Speaker 9:** to that if you remember i sat here at the last meeting and i took full ownership of what i did **Speaker 12:** i didn't have to say anything i could have sat here so i owned it okay let's finish that uh **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** stephanie well you got a different topic right the third one all right this can you hold on different side because the discussion of the second topic then we can go to the third topic **Speaker 13:** stephanie is just about is it okay i did meet with the fire marshal very nice and he did feel that he needed to come down i don't i'm just repeating face to face what i got from him he did declare no permit necessary he also made the comment about he didn't understand the change of youth situation because there was not that either and that he was because he came down business going to come to the town and file a report he didn't send me a report he was on his way down here to file a report so which brings me to a second piece that I want to add in later but it's also like all these little things are kind of adding up and I'm curious about the finances that are incurred by stuff that is like unnecessary but that's another topic so that part is clear no permit was needed everything's fine according to the state we're good **Speaker 9:** okay can I mention something to you in the conversation and I'm very specific about this I mean this is what happened I called I told him I'm concerned and I asked you know is there any permits and it was he who said well he says it sounds like I probably ought to make the call and go down and check and like everybody else I'm not sure what happened but I'm not sure what happened but I'm not sure what happened but I'm not sure what happened I said I did call back and leave a message to clarify I did not ask for a inspection I just want to know was there a permit like I said I'm trying to keep **Speaker 14:** this at the lowest level is there a permit or is there that I think we need **Speaker 13:** to have a level of decorum I'm going to ask for that but I do beg to differ in that the lowest common denominator would have been to come and say hey you guys have a permit do you need one do you know if you need one and then I could have been like wow I don't know let me call the guy that would have been on me and I and I would have done that so that would have been actually the **Speaker 14:** lowest well I do it a different I could be this way here it would have just **Speaker 9:** involved me and him and if you gave me the answer no I don't I don't maybe I'm wrong but I don't feel like it okay **Speaker 8:** what do you mean you and him you're off this list **Speaker 9:** you can't look can I finish yeah response since you served two terms on the board you can probably know that in the statute among other things it says that the planning or that the select board is responsible for oversight and that was part of what I was doing also there's three things that you cannot do individually you cannot legislate you cannot be judicial execute and that's that's the only thing that we are hold healthy by statute if I'm wrong fine look it up I'm sure you will and come back but those are the only three things unhealthy could have been done better yet it probably could have I haven't enjoyed this any more than you get but I was doing what I thought was right and I did nothing wrong I did nothing believe so you go **Speaker 15:** ahead does this mean that I can't ask Deb if somebody needs a permit which I **Speaker 16:** did and we but you said you were just on your own you did tell me that you were very specific after I came back to you yep you said no this is just me this is just me as a citizen I know that I've heard might stay at pay this is just me you asking the question as a citizen not part of this right different questions I 100% agree and Doug I know you're new but I definitely don't think anybody should be saying hey I'm from Stamford select I did not right right that's what **Speaker 9:** he said that he didn't say this so after yes after after I called well that's right **Speaker 10:** okay I think you know something you don't even I would tell her I regret that **Speaker 9:** it got to this level it was not intended but I will also say I was acting I think within my ugly within my balance I was trying to do so I regret any bad **Speaker 13:** feelings that you get through at this point how it's up but I'm very very sad and it is said that people cannot just transparently be strained and they will be straightforward. That people cannot just come up and say, hey, what are you guys doing? Hey, what's going on? We're all approachable. And I said this before, it was on recording before, I'm going to say it again. The one time that that situation blew up had nothing to do with me. That was a weird situation. And I was the one attacked. I wasn't the attacker. I had to stand there and take a barrage of bullying. That was insane and ridiculous. Okay. So that's not on me. I feel like the very, very sad thing is that people are sitting where you feel like it's in the best interest to, it's kind of like, let's go behind everybody's back. Don't anybody be straightforward. Don't go straight to the person and ask direct questions. And that is just weird to me. And I think it just is a, we should do better. We should do better. That's all. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Let's go, Christian. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** We don't want that. Everybody else, because I'm going to talk about the same thing, but I just want to, we should learn. So the last meeting, I did mention that I personally, personally, that's how I think we should go about it as a town is to be more friendly as a town. And when people are doing projects, and I can tell you, I've been on board quite a long time now, and I'm learning. And when you don't know, or you aren't sure, you can tell me. Ask. And if there's a person doing something, we have, we hire someone to go check on things, right? So we call up a person. But yes, if I'm driving by, I've talked to you many times. And we can just ask questions. I think that's the simplest way. That's just my opinion. I'm not a big fan of calling a state. That being said, and you can have your opinion. I have my opinion. One of the things that I read the unbelievable amounts of emails and letters. And personal emails that I got, and it's kind of getting to the point where I'm like, this is overwhelming. But one of the things I took out of the email, I won't say who wrote it, we should learn from our mistakes. If there's not a something in the process, or if we don't have a policy, and we come across it, we learned our lesson with the signs we did, we never thought in a million years, we'd go for that through all that. With that damn sign. And we didn't know the answers. We finally found the answers. But it took us two years to find out. Same thing with this. If we don't know what our policies are, if we don't know what the board should be doing, you know, you say, legislative, judicial, executive, that's for interpretation. So when you execute something, I interpret it as you're doing something you're doing, you're going out, you're making a decision, you're doing something, you know, or when you're making a decision, that you feel this is what the right thing to do, the decision, that's a judicial part of it, you're saying, okay, I decided that this is against the law. Right? Police officers do that a lot. And they go out there and they do it. I was a police officer, you were a police officer, he thinks he was. And I'm sorry. No, but I like to lighten it up a little bit, because this is serious. But I mean, guys, we live in this town together. You know, so when I'm what I'm saying is, is when we're not sure, we can bring it to this board, we can ask the question, the plan of boards the same way, the commissions, whatever that other one is, zoning, conservation, all them things. They come to their boards, they do it, find out. And I think that as a board, we can talk about this later, we can say, okay, does this fall in our policies, whether it's our slut board policies, or ethics policy, and see if it's there. If it's not, talk about it, see what we can do. So that's what we think. One thing I do commend you, Doug, is you do regret it. You said you regret it. I know it's a hard thing for anyone to say, I'm sorry. Ask my wife. I don't think she's ever said it. But when you, when we make mistakes, and you did say, you said, it could have went better. That's good. You're right. It could have went better. All of this could have been avoided. It could have went better. And that I think that's a great thing that you understand that and the rest of us. Understand that. Let's learn from that mistake and move on. The fire marshal, I did ask Laurie just now, did he report? There was no permit needed. Everything's fine. I'm sorry that you had to go through that because I wish that we could have said, okay, is there, for what you're doing, is there a permit needed? And we should know that. And if we don't know it, we should go find out the information and get back to you. Not the other way. So, and it's such a shoe. Everyone in this town should be treated the same way. Everyone. Not because you lived here one day or forever or really forever. So that's how I feel. And I think that when we sit down, you know, when it comes to the executive session we're having, there's other things that will be addressed. I assure you as a board member that the things that I have been reading will be addressed in that executive session. It may take weeks before we come to a decision. I'm not going to come up with an answer because there's a lot of individuals involved with us. But when it comes to this matter, I think it's done. I hope that it doesn't have, you know, the way it happened. I hope it changes. And I'm going to at least bring it up in our executive session and say, there are some things we can't bring out in the Republican session. And when we do make a decision, and I assure you, when we do make a decision, it does come out. We say, okay, this is what we, the action was taken. Sometimes there's no action. And we say, okay, this is it in the best interest of the town. There's some things that, you know, people just call people names and everything. What am I going to say? It's crazy. Sure. I agree. I agree. I like transparency. I do. I like it. You know, I mean, to me, that's one thing I can tell you is I'm never behind anyone's back ever. I don't believe he was intending that at all. I just think that when a lot of people put their mind to something and they think they're doing the right thing and then later they go, okay, no, maybe I could have done better. That's fine. Hopefully this is behind us. I hope it is at least because there's bigger and worse things that we need to take care of tonight. They're about the same situation. We have to, as a board, I feel we're responsible for a hell of a lot in this town. And again, I'm learning. I don't know everything. That's for damn sure. But when I see something that we don't know, let's figure it out because this is serious. This is bad stuff. **Speaker 17:** And we start talking to say, who's in charge of this town? We need to start bucking around. Okay. Sorry. About the same subject or I'll let Chris go on. No, I'm going to change the subject. Okay. Well, CJ has one more. That's okay. Just in light of how we're digging back in the history about permits and things like that, we have on our books in the state of Vermont, any car that's in some of the yard needs to be registered. We have **Speaker 6:** I found 15 so far, cars unregistered in people's driveways, yards, as well as we still have a junk yard in a floodplain that has not been addressed. And that was going all the way back to Ron Block. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Deb, do you want to respond? I'm with you. **Speaker 6:** I didn't mean to come off partial. **Speaker 16:** There are several things that need to be addressed, which I am addressing. that's one of them unfortunately our bylaws no longer say unregistered it just says even operable but our bylaws just say inoperable so once again do i call the same to our bylaws and then why do we have our bylaws if the state was continually going to quantify bylaws because it would change it used to say registered i would look up the state by **Speaker 18:** the state law because the state trumps the bylaw always it does so why do we why do we have **Speaker 19:** anything bylaws should only be stronger it's more stringent not less they're not so **Speaker 16:** by the way you didn't mean there are very few things in fact i can't think of one **Speaker 20:** anything in our bylaws that's stronger than the state so do we call the state for all these junk **Speaker 16:** cars that are around we need to just i guess i guess from now on i should just mention the state and then we're going to so so there this gets back to our discussion a whole year ago on how a zoning administrator should be compensated not just on permits issues as a zoning enforcement contractor but also the state literally says yes to what the state is doing and then they **Speaker 21:** have to look at everything that's happening and they're not going to just be saying that **Speaker 16:** the state is going to do a lot of work for the state to get them to view and that it's not just the state and they're going to use their own ideas to do a lot of work for the state and then i don't know how that will affect the state but that that's just another thing by the way but a lot of times you know if if the state lets go of you know if they decide to move Or do we now start to drive around and cite people who have a camper sitting there that hasn't moved in six months? Or a piece of junk out in front of their yard that they could technically take. There are so many things. So these are important discussions to have with the Planning Commission. Yeah, I agree with you, CJ, 100%. **Speaker 6:** The junkyard is bothering me, just because it's been 20 years. If you look at it from Google Earth, you can see the time. Yes, things have not changed. But that was all I say. David, again, thank you for the wonderful job that I've seen. Thank you all for your time. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Jim. **Speaker 22:** Yeah, I want to piggyback on what Deb was saying. First off, we don't have any ordinances. And so automobiles fall under ordinances, not zoning. The junkyard, that's another story. Again, an ordinance. We don't have anybody to enforce ordinances here. So there's no sense that even right now we don't have anybody to enforce them. You're not going to get a zoning administrator to go and tell us. I was told, blatantly, to go and tell the gentleman up here on Main Road to clean his front yard. And I had it that way, like an idiot. On my way, I started thinking, I'm not telling somebody to clean their yard. That's not my job. Period. So if we need to get some ordinance together, then that's what we need to do. I'll be more than happy to help anybody with that or anybody else. I'm committing, I'm doing just nothing but ordinances. But that's on you guys. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** So how do we enforce it? You just said we can't enforce the ordinance. **Speaker 22:** You have to have an ordinance enforcement officer. Each one of you guys are. I was when I was a zoning administrator. She is. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** We all can issue the tickets. **Speaker 22:** Exactly. And so you have a citation. You guys can go. You can write citations. You have to have a point. You can appoint somebody to do it. So that's on that. But I mean, that can come up along the line at some other point, but it's been up a lot with ordinances. Again, I don't know if you guys can see what I'm talking about when it comes to zoning. You look at the state laws and regulations. It doesn't say anything about moving cars. It's zoning. Campground. That's a different thing. Do we have ordinances or not ordinances? Do we have bylaws for a campground? **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Does it say it in our bylaws about campgrounds? It talks about campgrounds. **Speaker 16:** It doesn't get into. **Speaker 22:** No, it doesn't. There's nothing in our bylaws that has anything with any teeth that we can enforce. So, again, they were over at our meeting, a meeting one day. The BCS. Yeah. So they were over and the gentleman. Informed us of the town plan coming up and so that we're going to get within two years. So we're going to have to start thinking about that along the lines. But more importantly, apply for that grant to do the town plan. And secondly, I also found out that they will also do another grant for us for the bylaws. So maybe we get that grant, get them up here and support our changing of the bylaws. Do some ordinances that they'll, they're going to, they want to do this. So I think, you know, let's do it and that's that. So what I really wanted to say was that the sign thing, it's, it's basically put the rest, put the sign off, do the thing. I sent some, I dropped off paperwork for Lori to sign a permit and file a permit with the state. Okay. It's called an 11. 11. It enables us to work in the zone. Yes, there is an easement there. Fair enough. Dave was right. But we can put the sign there. It's been there for years. And pretty much every little town on Route 108, any highway or whatever else, the state has an easement on public property. So this is nothing abnormal. I talked to the main guy, project manager. He says, absolutely. Who's enforcing this? Anyways, we won't go there, but anyways, we have the paperwork to fill out and send in and he said, put the sign in. I told him we want the old sign up on the roof. I just said that. I just said it. If we decide not to do it. Find a neon. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** No. Did she know that it's down here? **Speaker 23:** I didn't see until the end of last week. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** It's pretty heavy. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** How did it get down here? **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I picked it up and brought it down. So yeah. **Speaker 23:** Got me on camera. I told them what we wanted to do. **Speaker 22:** We wanted to put the sign on the building. It's pretty heavy. On the peak. On two different directions so that people know it's in the backyard over here. And I want a parking spot that says sled board. That would be another sign. Okay. No problem. Well, we'll look over the paperwork from Lori and see what we have. Thank you. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I want to hear some real noise. 30 years ago, we had an administrator that enforced that. But it's not working. It's not working. It's not working. It's not working. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** It's not working. It's not working. It's not working. It's not working. It's not working. It's not working. **Speaker 24:** It's not working. And Russ Clough raised an awful lot of noise. I mean, things were... **Speaker 8:** I have to say, 38 years ago when I first moved here, some people in this room were... A lot of people. I mean, things were... A tight ship was run. There was a group of people that made sure that we could work and get the money. Yeah. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** this town stayed nice and that has not been so all those vehicles that are up on the back roads that are thought at least 50 to 100 years old they didn't see those yeah i don't i disagree it's just this main road is what people have to continue no but it's just it's this main road people see things and when it comes between a junk car and art i can't tell the difference anymore but down north adam's see what they call art you know we had some bed posts or whatever the hell you call it down the road here i mean they say you know ours are cars with flowers out of them oh that's funny yeah so we you know i personally think if your neighbor complains i hope the neighbors talk to each other it's to get into that is there's so many cars in the shop right yeah what's next thank you **Speaker 16:** wait yeah yes okay 15 minutes i'm sitting in courtesy i had something wrong right now but i would like i know you can't do a motion tonight but i feel that this dba meeting should not move you can't jump protocol i'd like to know how there are two how there are two separate items on just for a meeting for an appeal that no permit issue so i really want to know is this the best use of the challenge i think so sending out all of these certified letters to the butters jumping protocol why did he have me should come through me somebody should have come to me nancy you did we talked we had it **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** taken care of we didn't we didn't agree but we didn't make a deal we did make an agreement we're **Speaker 25:** i didn't agree but we didn't argue but that was quick i'm sorry deb i gotta jump in here too **Speaker 22:** the conversation you had with her was a long quite a ways before this yeah and and the state law says that the zba exists basically for hearing of denials by the al right all right **Speaker 26:** the zoning administrator she did not deny anything i denied nothing i was requested nothing **Speaker 16:** um and then i heard well there's been the reason is because there was precedent set okay if that's the road we're going down you guys are opening a huge can of worms with precedent because i started running down all of the precedents that were set in the past that i don't follow because they're not in our lives i don't know if this is i don't know **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** pertains to it but But didn't I ask this a while back with the sign? I hate people bringing that up again with the sign up. But didn't I ask how long can we go back? And didn't you say forever? **Speaker 27:** You can't go back. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Because there's no number? Wasn't that? It's ridiculous. That is a can of worms. **Speaker 16:** But there can't be an appeal to the ZBA if no permit is added. **Speaker 20:** Right. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** How would they know? How would they know? **Speaker 16:** So just like the sign. Right. Let's follow the procedure. And I will still give the same answer. And I'll say it here on tape. I don't care. But if you want the procedure, follow. Let's do it. But let's stop this meeting coming up. Because it is. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Well, I don't think we can stop it, Jeff. Because it has gone to the ZBA. **Speaker 16:** Who authorized it? **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** The ZBA. **Speaker 16:** It's gone to them. No, no, no, no. You can't just take it. Exactly. **Speaker 20:** Somebody just can't come to the window and say, I want to have a meeting with the ZBA. **Speaker 6:** I agree. **Speaker 28:** You can't. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** You can't. You can't do that. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I agree. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** So you think it's up to us to stop the meeting? No. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** It's up to her. In a zone. In any permit situation, she has to deny. Then the person says, I want to appeal it to the ZBA. How do you appeal something that wasn't a permit? **Speaker 16:** Or get rid of my physician. Can I also add something to this? **Speaker 13:** Because, again, guess what? Guess who's involved? Hello. First of all, why is someone able to file an appeal? And to me, I was looking. I know the cost of a certified letter. And I'm also going to speak from the perspective of being in charge of an organization that answers to a board and also having to understand fiscal responsibility. Two different sets of certified letters went out to all of Butters for two properties. That's, in the one hand, a lot of money. If you're just trying to watch your nickels and dimes, which we should be. Put it in the same envelope. You know, that's taxpayers' money. So there's that one. But the second thing is, I know in my job, if I were to send out something like that, without verifying whether or not the information in it was accurate, so that the letter went out, the letters went out, the information in it is completely false, and it lists two other situations that make no sense. They went out to our Butters, my neighbors, that don't know me. Now suddenly have these weird two certified letters. Do they, unless they come to that meeting, they don't get to know the truth of the situation or what's actually accurate with the landscape or, I mean, the information is just completely false. So we now have a meeting happening, which I'm inclined to go to, but where is my chance to send out a certified mail? Like, I want to be able to do that. Where's my chance to let people hear that? Wait a minute. The information in this letter is inaccurate. All where the land is, where the water is, all of it's inaccurate. So what is the meeting actually about? **Speaker 16:** And how can you have two separate items and only pay once? **Speaker 13:** And the appeal doesn't have anything to do with the second address because it's two years apart. So where is the actual following of any kind of, yeah. **Speaker 22:** This letter is in fact, this application, this application is in fact, it's not worth the paper it's written on. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Well, I don't think it's up to Lori to decide and say, oh, I can't send this out. **Speaker 2:** So the only certified mail went to you and the complainant. All of the other butters just were sent regular mail, just to clarify that. And whoever attends the hearing and speaks or questions or whatever is part of the discussion will also get the written mail. And the complaint has no merit, then it should be put to rest. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** It should be just a five minute meeting. **Speaker 16:** But the complaint should have come, shouldn't have gone directly to the DBA because the afternoon is the only board of appeals. They are a board of appeals, not just a complaint. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** No, I have to, I have to ask. I did not read the complaint. **Speaker 18:** It says date. **Speaker 16:** Date. Date. Date. Date. Date. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Does the complaint say, what is the, if there was no permit issued or no one asked for a permit, what does the complaint, what is it appealing? **Speaker 16:** One, okay, there are two separate items on it. One is appealing our verbal communication that no permit was required for a change of use. Correct. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** But no one asked you, so you didn't give it. **Speaker 16:** Nancy, Nancy asked me and we had a conversation. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** But the person that owns the land. **Speaker 16:** No. Okay. No. The second one. The second one is for a permit that I did. It was a notice of permits on Klondike for two small. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Yeah, I know. Yeah, I go by them every day. **Speaker 16:** And they're appealing that saying it's become a, or people are living in it or. **Speaker 22:** Airbnb. **Speaker 16:** Airbnb. But did anybody come to me? No, there's. Did they trespass and go on the property and see something that shouldn't have been? **Speaker 29:** I don't know. **Speaker 13:** No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. That's what it all comes down to. That the water rights may be damaged by these two accessory buildings that are. They have no water hooked up. The water rights that she's talking about are actually on a different property going from her property to our pond that feeds the house. So there's no way that something on another property farther up the road would actually. **Speaker 30:** actually impact water rights that come from her land right so those two pieces those two buildings **Speaker 31:** are not hooked up to water no there's no there's nothing there that's a that's not the building **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** i agree i agree my i let's go way back here yeah yes let's go way back the first issue is there a is there a reason for an appeal i believe no okay the first one i think it's a hands down hands down boom no here's my problem is when the zoning board chairman takes on that so you're telling me i can write a letter to the zone board and say i'm like pam i'm right next to her i'm going to say no i think that she needs to get a permit for this this this this does she got 48 years ago or 38 years ago i wasn't even living here and then the board looks at it and says oh geez we're going to look into this or should they go back to dev and say did you have anything to do with this case if she says no shouldn't she be the one that looks at it and says i just don't i think that people can't just willy-nilly write things and then everyone just except because everything so far including every testimony here is hearsay it's all hearsay so when you hear even though it might be truth at this point the board should not be listening to hearsay until they go to the person that we hired the second one i'm not sure the whole situation you did get involved with a permit i guess you could go up and see if there's water hooked to it but you'd have to ask permission i'm sure she would say go ahead look at it i agree with you if it if there is a water problem just like if someone was polluting my well above my house up there i could go over to them and say hey you pollute my well do something about it if not taking it to court but the fact is that i **Speaker 22:** had is the application you a person has 15 days to to to deny or to but to what the second one **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** there was a permit the 15 days is going way way back that was a notice okay but the first one was no request for permit or comment why is it going and i guess that's where we go what is the procedure and i read these emails again let's learn from what we're not doing what are the procedures i don't know the procedure right now it doesn't sound doesn't seem like it's common sense to me to have someone write a letter or get a form from laurie fill it out and send it to the zoning board and not go through our al right well it shouldn't a o the chairman or the zone board question now does she have the **Speaker 2:** right to act individually and say i'm not going to allow it or is she part of a board where the board has to take a look at this and say there's no merit before they sent out these letters maybe **Speaker 13:** they should have had a meeting for that i guess my question is can you at least make sure the information is accurate because it's not so there's so it's false information and we're going to be caught up in a in a situation where it's like me saying my neighbor has a bob's big boy and they're selling burgers up on county road it's not really there but i'm going to send in a letter i'm going to notify all the abutters it's not actually there but i want to **Speaker 32:** cause i want a meeting so i'm going to make something up that's a complaint to come in and **Speaker 2:** give her a side and then you can say none of that is happening now you're having a hearing now you're **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** talking to people now it's a meeting which has to be warned i agree with that but was the meeting necessary **Speaker 8:** is if you don't you could just say to the person if it's let's just forget about this exactly first of all i'm questioning whether this hasn't ever happened before and all of a sudden this situation is being handled differently because it's stephanie just like all the other things that because it's definitely but let's just step back this is why you have to have protocols because if people are just gonna spew crap then you could just be like listen take your court take your own money and take take the person to **Speaker 33:** court but don't drag the town through mud and all this BS yes I'm 100% in **Speaker 16:** agreement just aside 2008 week 2007-2008 we had some a similar situation the chairman of the select board took me aside and said you'll never I will never admit that I'm telling you this but you gotta go to court and you've got to either sue the town or sue your neighbors that was how it was handled so is this how we want to handle it and that came directly from a we select board chairperson at the time so um no no because the one or two people on that board that's the whole issue here **Speaker 1:** yeah it's utilization of these of going around offer procedure and also just a code of conduct amongst ourselves to harass someone **Speaker 34:** when is this meeting? June 18th **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** June 25th **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** June 25th does **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** this permit Russia want to do um cartels going out **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** 200 hundred sorry 3 don't we don't long is what is 27 yeah um 5 cekt 7 8 7 e mor 0 **Speaker 21:** ok **Speaker 16:** years it's 0 long It was new, right? You mean as far as the Bosco Church? Yeah, yeah. But there was no change. There was no change. No change in traditional use or anything. So asking Stephanie to put forward a permit would mean that almost everybody moving in, I mean, I'm like, gosh, I want to put my own. I mean, so listen. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Can I ask another question? Because I'm not following everything here. I didn't read everything. And I apologize. I don't have all the information. Is the complaint on both things from the same person? **Speaker 16:** Yes. Yeah. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** So the complaint on Klondike Road because of a water issue. **Speaker 19:** Which is not any other property. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Whether it is when this complaint by the same people. Okay. Thank you. **Speaker 13:** Same complaint. **Speaker 30:** Thank you. **Speaker 13:** Can I also clarify that the fire marshal. Did say, he said, that's why he made a comment about, because he watched, I guess, the video and he's been reading the minute, so they're paying attention because he wanted to make sure he was, you know, and he said, from the perspective of change of views, from an educational perspective, we are engaging for health and well-being. We are engaging in the assembly of people. That is also what the church was doing. There is no change of views according to the state. I thought we were going to. So that, I mean, I, that's what I'm going with and I read the bylaws and I want to be a, they said in my letter, I, I am a town member, I'm a citizen, I'm here, we're not going anywhere, I'm here. So we're trying to do the right thing and be active members and do vital things and do things that are community oriented and participate well, and it's. It's just interesting that. Sorry. You know. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I think that the question asked, you were right, it's about a half an hour. The question asked was, can we stop this meeting? I don't know the answer. It seems to me that the meeting is then awarded, posted, letters are sent out. I'm going to do my best to be at this meeting because I have opinions. And I. Would like to go to a meeting, see how it goes. **Speaker 16:** Do I need permission to speak to the attorney? I have to defend myself on this one. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** And I know that. Why would they be, why would you have to defend yourself? I mean, I don't think it's anything against the AO. **Speaker 35:** That's my opinion. **Speaker 22:** I agree with that because there's a select two people that are on that ZBA that are trying to. **Speaker 13:** And I would say based on the letters that I've put in. They have been asked. They will need to recuse themselves from any decisions. I'm going to go on that board. **Speaker 24:** If I authorized the meeting, that's where I'm already got the paperwork followed through with it. Who authorized the ZPA meeting? **Speaker 2:** Jean Kerfield is the chair. So the answer would be her. **Speaker 24:** Have her to have her to cancel it. **Speaker 2:** But I have to say, like, so board of abatement, the state law gives you seven reasons to allow an abatement. You can't just come in. And say, I had a flat tire and my car was late. You know, I didn't think I came on time. You have to have a qualifying reason to be entitled to an abatement. When a request comes in, I can read it and see that it doesn't meet the qualifications. But I can't say you're not entitled to a hearing if they want to come in. But Jean can. **Speaker 2:** Jean can. But I can't. I just have to follow through. But I think it should. **Speaker 16:** I. I. You totally bypassed me. It should have been, excuse me, complainant, but we first have to go and let's follow procedure so that we don't set some sort of precedent and send her to me. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** So the complaint on this one is, I think I can bring this up in public, the complaint on this one is they are, they are disagreeing with that there should have been a permit or a change of use. Correct. **Speaker 16:** They are, they are appealing that we had a conversation. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** And that time period you talked about started when? **Speaker 16:** Well, we talked about it time and time again. They're saying it was the May 1st meeting. So they filed the paperwork on the 14th. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Okay. Okay. **Speaker 16:** But the full conversation had happened prior to. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Were you just saying hi or you had your hand up forever? Yeah. I was going to say, yeah. You're just being nice. **Speaker 18:** Yeah. **Speaker 16:** So basically it's 15. So the permit, nobody can use it. **Speaker 36:** Right. **Speaker 16:** So once those 15 days are done, every complaint, everything else goes up to the court. **Speaker 26:** Do whatever you want. **Speaker 16:** There was no permit. **Speaker 22:** But there was no permit. There was no permit needed. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** So actually the appeal should actually be going to this board saying that A.L. didn't do her job. Exactly. Right. Then we take her on executive session and say, what's the story? She tells us the story. We make a decision. And the case is made. **Speaker 16:** You guys know the story now. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Yeah. Well, geez, I think. Yeah. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Yeah. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Okay. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I'm thinking that. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I would like. I would actually think that this is a good idea. I think, Bill, we can. We can't. I don't think we can force someone because we did appoint these people just like we point to everybody. But I think that Bill's right. We reach out to Gene to say we feel. And I don't know if the board's agreeing with this. I'm just saying we feel that this is an unnecessary meeting. Maybe you can cancel this meeting because it's not warranted for this. The time period has passed. There was no. There was no permit or a request. For a permit. This has just gone on from. Who knows when. Where are we getting these dates from? And it just doesn't make sense to me. On the second one, there was a request for a permit. That was. That's way past 15 days. I know that for a fact. **Speaker 16:** Like 400. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** So I agree with you. The problem is not about permitting. It's about what's going on up there. And that is up to them to provide the burden of proof of what's going on. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Should go back. To you on that. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** But you can't just walk in their land and check it. You're going to ask for permission, right? **Speaker 22:** You know, has a constitutional do their job. If she files for a permit, the permit, actually, our permission to go on. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Right. But that's already been gone by. **Speaker 37:** Now you have someone saying, well, there's another thing going on. **Speaker 22:** There was no permit. That's right. There can't be a denial. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** But if you say that she's doing something up at these buildings, who cares? **Speaker 38:** Oh, yeah. **Speaker 22:** So then they'll leave. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Yeah, yeah, right. That's it. That's it. And then I mean, do you guys know what? I'm going up, I can't absolutely not. There was rumors I was doing things up. **Speaker 19:** I can't go to some sort of gathering of people. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Exactly. So come on up. So my camp was built as a camp. So if I'm doing something different than a camp, right, if I'm doing training up there for firearms, then you've got to question that and ask me to come see it. But until then, it's hearsay. It's ridiculous. And if it's years after I got my damn permit, and I've been up there for 20 something years, where's this coming from? So like I said before, we're going down a rabbit hole that we can go down this road and go, hey, where's that permit? I disagree with it today because I got a bug up my butt because I don't like someone. **Speaker 16:** You and the board have the ability to do the law. You you need to govern. You are elected. I don't care who you've been listening to. We're all elected and you appoint these people. **Speaker 22:** And you know, who is responsible for the person, the same person **Speaker 37:** I'm going to dig into that more, too. **Speaker 16:** I think it's not written by the person. **Speaker 22:** This is a chance for the board to do something to kind of say, hey, wait a minute, no, this is harassment. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** OK, it's obvious. I think we can move on and I'll bring this. We could talk about this more in executive session, because I think the public already knows that as far as we can go right now. Personally, I would like to discuss it more. OK. **Speaker 16:** Great. Yeah. OK. Jim, what is it? Absolutely. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** OK, so you're moving on, right? **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Yeah. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** No more. Nobody else wants to talk about some other subject. **Speaker 39:** Something easy. Rainbows. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** That peaches are. **Speaker 23:** Cardinals, birds, white peaches, trout fishing. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** The peaches, peaches are coming back. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Peaches. Oh, oh, good. OK. **Speaker 40:** Rhodes, you look like you want a regular first reading **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** and approval of records and orders. May 15th. I wasn't here. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Motion. Second. **Speaker 39:** All in favor? Aye. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I am. Road conditions, Dave. **Speaker 41:** We're going to be here the week of the 6th to do the sheming. The sweeper should be next week. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I got a dumb question for you. We had when we when someone wants to plow the road in the wintertime to get a permit to plow it, they show you a bond. They're allowed to plow it. Is there any way that we can? Is there anything in place where we can maintain a road? And I'm talking about my road up the camp. If I wanted to. And you told me what size and all this stuff to put a culvert in. **Speaker 41:** If you want to do it. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** If I wanted to do it. And I had and I had a thought. OK. All right. So I didn't know if there was something in place. **Speaker 41:** On your property or on the road? **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** No, on the road. On the road. You've been up there, though. So I know you have it. And there's two culverts that if we don't fix them, it's going to make the road worse. And I know you're busy and we have the machines. We have all of that. I didn't know. I don't want to tell the guys, let's do it. We can't even get a culvert. But, you know, I mean, to cover that first one, it's all plastic. It's only an inch. **Speaker 41:** Yeah. Unfortunately, it's going to be an inch. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Yeah. So you've got to bump it up. **Speaker 41:** Yeah. All right. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** So if we if there was something in place for that, we could allow it. If we had a general contractor come in and do it. Right. **Speaker 41:** Yeah. OK. I would think that you want an insurance. Yeah. Yeah. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Yeah. Yeah. It's a class four. But it's unmaintained class four. But, you know, I mean, if we don't fix that culvert, the water's going to come down the road and then the road's going to get worse. It's going to be more of a job for all of us. And he's got what? How many culverts you say in town now? Two, 300, 300, 300. So, you know, I'm not asking for him to go up on a class four road to fix it. I'm just saying we can do something. **Speaker 41:** I mean, it's certainly definitely been on my radar, I would say, for probably five, six years. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Yeah. Yeah. And it's not 18. But that's what that's what you got to do. **Speaker 42:** Unfortunately, the standard says, well, we'll look into the bylaws **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** and anything and see if we can we can pass an ordinance and do it or something. I mean, it seems to me to be similar to the file. **Speaker 41:** I don't think you need an ordinance, but I would say the board should. If you guys want to do it, it's just got to be done to code and stare. You have to be sure. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Yeah. And just like that road, just like that plowing agreement. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Right. Right. You know, if I can get a million dollar insurance, that's what we ask for. Plowing. Yeah. That's a couple, you know, a couple hundred bucks come up. I might even have someone who's already got the insurance. That's what I'm saying. Right. So we go up there, we dig it out, we put it in. You know, it's like having Johnny Bull do something. **Speaker 40:** Well, he's already got the insurance. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** He knows how to do it. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Dave would inspect it before, after, except. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Yeah. Okay. **Speaker 41:** Yeah. I mean, that's happened before. Sir Sossamo put all the culverts in on that. And they logged that road years ago. That was a big fight with John because they did it without me even asking. They went through and replaced, did a bunch of work. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I'm sure I could have done it without asking you. Like you said, it's not, you know, five years it's been. If I did it without asking, you might go up there and say, boy, this is a good job. But I don't want any problems, especially, especially I'm a sweat board member. I don't want to be up there and say, well, what's he doing? **Speaker 41:** Never tell somebody just go back. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Tom. **Speaker 6:** Never. The camera's up there. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** There it is. I can get rid of the evidence. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Dave, what about the culvert on East row? That large culvert that. **Speaker 41:** Oh, yeah, we got a grant. Did you bring that up at the last meeting? **Speaker 43:** Or are you going to bring up this? **Speaker 2:** We received a $200,000 grant to replace that culvert. But it's what? $530,000. **Speaker 41:** Yeah, it's almost a $600,000 job. We talked to the state. They seem to think the estimate was high. I kind of agree. But I can come up with an alternative project as long as it meets their. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Risky ranch roads. **Speaker 44:** It's OK. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** We'll do it for $200. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Now, did the state say that culvert had to be replaced? **Speaker 41:** So I had a hydraulic study done because it does need to be replaced. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** OK. **Speaker 41:** They do the hydraulic study, and then they send what needs to be there. I don't get the maintenance. They give you a price. They give you a project. But in the end, it says that other structures could be considered, but they have to approve. So they want a concrete box. But I could do a pipe arch or something else, as long as they approve of it. So it's possible that we could do it more economically. But now I have to spend more time to try to come up with my own project that they might reject. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** When does this grant run out? One year? Two year? **Speaker 41:** I'm sure we can come up with something that's right now. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** And that's the one heading. When you go up the lane, you turn left, several streams coming down that mountain, and I . . . **Speaker 41:** It's the first large cross, but, you know, the concrete . . . **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** It's going to be like Lincoln Road. **Speaker 41:** I said Lincoln Road was more of a grid . . . I just got somebody to give us an estimate on their design. So if you could figure out a . . . That was fairly easy somehow. I've got to come up with my own that they could reject. OK. OK. Because I don't . . . At this point, we'd have to come up with another . . . Because it goes up. It has to be done. At some point, I don't want to throw the money away that they're going to give us, so . . . Yeah. At some point, I will . . . How about the garage doors? **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Were you able to . . . They haven't . . . You left some decision up to him. Hmm? We left a decision up to Dave. Oh, for the side door. Yeah. I did get an estimate, but I haven't . . . **Speaker 41:** Side door. We just did . . . The ones on the . . . . . . . . . . . . **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** The ones on the . . . . . . . **Speaker 44:** The doors probably saw they come gray and white . . . **Speaker 41:** It's gray at the . . . Right. I understand, but the garage already looks . . . It'll look fine with new doors and new overhead doors. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** So, I think I'm just going to have to go out. **Speaker 41:** Who's that? Bill Lincoln. Bill and Matt Lincoln. I don't . . . **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** . . . . . . . . . **Speaker 45:** . . . **Speaker 41:** . . . So, because normally . . . **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Do you appreciate that? **Speaker 41:** There is a lot of . . . There's a lot . . . . . . . . . **Speaker 24:** . . . . . . . . . . . . **Speaker 41:** . . . . . . . . . **Speaker 8:** . . . **Speaker 41:** . . . **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Okay, can we turn the thing on? Let me tell you, I'm going to start getting naked pretty soon. The meeting will be over just like that. Turn it on faster. We'll just do a turn right there. See that? **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** And what else, Dave, do you have? **Speaker 41:** We're going to be out. We're getting them all in track. They're ready. We're going to deal with that. So it's back with us now? So it's back. It's getting that. The roads look good up there. No, I think everything's in pretty good shape. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** What else? **Speaker 41:** I'm still waiting to hear from the DCRC about our truck. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** How about recycling? First, any other questions for Dave? Recycling. **Speaker 41:** Tires. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I think it was cheaper than the other guy, wasn't it? I thought he said he was. **Speaker 41:** No. I wish there were. We want to call Pat and see. I just didn't know if that was something we were able to. Wasn't there a question about that? **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Just if he has permits. Does he have to file permits in Vermont? But he's not a regular collector. It's not like Demolino and RLFave. But our people that bring the tires to the recycling area, they are paying for them as far as we can tell. They're not just dropping them there. I mean, it costs a whole lot. **Speaker 41:** Some of them show up after. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Yeah. What did it cost? It cost last time to get rid of them in the lot, didn't it, too? **Speaker 41:** I mean, I guess it was kind of. For an highway. **Speaker 8:** Otherwise, it was Bennington. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Was it? **Speaker 41:** Yeah, the last time. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Let's give them a call. Yeah. Ask them, because, you know, it's a business. It's sort of a local business. Yes. Helps them out. **Speaker 41:** I want to make sure that we have used them and those questions as well. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Okay. Anything else? **Speaker 2:** Yeah, I received an email from the state. The battery boxes. The state provides, and they have a contract with FedEx so that they can be boxed up and just sent out. **Speaker 36:** Yep. **Speaker 2:** No longer contracting. Any boxes will be accepted. They're going to contract with. So, I let Carol know. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Oh, that ought to go off. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** The post offices should take them without charge. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** We'll get a return to sender on them. **Speaker 2:** August 1st, it changed, so. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Post office will be charging. Just another thing that the state says we've got to do. Set it up. But no money. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Pay for it. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Well, let us know what happens there, or could they go to the Household Hazardous Waste? Could they go up there? **Speaker 1:** Take advantage of the batteries. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Take advantage of the batteries. They did, right. They did at the Household Hazardous Waste that I attended in Bennington, but they went to a separate table, and he was boxing them up. He didn't go into the. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** They're worth money. That's why they're boxing them up. Contractor bills. They're worth money. It shouldn't even cost them anything. They're worth money. You bring a battery up, if you bring a car battery up the Doberts, they give you money for it. They won't charge you for it. So, I would assume all batteries are pretty much the same, even though they're small, they add up. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Mm-hmm. Okay, we'll watch it and see what happens. **Speaker 40:** Different? **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Yeah. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Each one of those have a mineral they want, though. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Taxi anticipation, no worry. **Speaker 41:** They'll give us money to get through until tax is coming in. **Speaker 44:** I don't know. **Speaker 41:** I don't know. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I don't know. I don't know. **Speaker 2:** I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Okay. Does it have the battery up? Does the battery go off? Yes. OK. When you go back on the truck, you'll tell me, how are you? One. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** One. That's what I want to tell you. **Speaker 36:** Well, some of the batteries that you anything you get, it's difficult to get the water **Speaker 22:** coming through, but it was able to pull reflecting on the code, and I **Speaker 46:** don't believe it outside the **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** front, but it's very good. **Speaker 2:** Yes, ma'am. Yeah. Yes. All right. Would you give somebody the authority to sign that note sort of thing? I don't care. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Do you want to do it? Sure. I'm into a firetruck and everything else. **Speaker 12:** Will should have given Nancy the authority to sign that. **Speaker 1:** Is that okay? **Speaker 22:** Fine with me. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Oh, way over that. Firetruck and a couple of Dave's piece of equipment up there. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Oh, excavated. **Speaker 40:** A couple culverts add up to a million dollars nowadays. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Let me know, Lori. 911 house numbers. It's come to my attention, Bill, that there's a couple of houses that do not have their house numbers on them. It was a concern, and they did get the paperwork from Lori. They just didn't put up their numbers for whatever reason. So if it could go in the minutes, please follow the instructions. Put your house numbers in. Put your house numbers up where they're supposed to be. Especially in Alpenwald, because some people are still using their lot numbers. Or maybe they make up a number because they think, I'm the next house up the road, so I'll go number two. Are you still in Alpenwald? Oh, you have. **Speaker 47:** Okay. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** No, I can't. Oh, yes, please. Yes. Just make sure they're using their, they come to the town, go to Bill and get the number. **Speaker 24:** It's been three to four years since Phil and I went out. Right. With the 911 list on every road in town. And then we sent out a notice, a letter, a form letter to every one of those people. What we've never tried to enforce is that there's state law that you can penalize people. I forget whether it's 50 or 100 bucks. Once they're warned, they're not having the number. And two of the specifications. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Don't they realize it's for their own safety and they don't care? **Speaker 40:** We explained to them. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** It's not just their safety. A fire truck gets called out and they go to the wrong place. Yes. And now, for some reason, there's another incident in town, and now that fire truck's out there. Or they didn't go to the right house. I mean, it's this one fire truck ambulance. So many people are involved. Right. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** The EMT, well, not EMT, the first responders, I know in Alpenwald for a fact, they couldn't find the house. They're going up and going, oh. Yeah. And then they hear on the scanner, fire truck found the house. And they're going, why didn't we see it? **Speaker 24:** It's really difficult. Yeah. We went looking. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** So we can. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** So, Bill, will you send letters again or go around? **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Do we know. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Or do you want somebody to, do you want. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Do we know some of these people that we can pass on to Bill to be the first ones he sends a letter to? **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Um. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Did somebody raise a complaint to begin with? **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I think one I know. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** You know, so if we know people. Send them a letter. We still have them there. Somewhere on the computer. Yeah. And then if, you know. We can send them a letter. Someone on that wall. **Speaker 24:** We can. So should I call them in person? If you want to consider reforming the letter and invoke, we'll look up the detail and invoke the state penalty. And then you can write one of your tickets for it. **Speaker 1:** And it's in Alpenwald. **Speaker 34:** I mean, if you know that it's two people and it's your neighbor, just call them up. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Tell them to get their thing out. Because that's what's going to happen. You know, but if it's a lot of people, it needs to be done. You spent the money. Yeah. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Yes, you did. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** To go out. And we did it twice. And, you know. You still have signs at the fire department? You can buy them from the fire department? Sure. Yeah. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I mean, they're beautiful signs. All right. Let me, let me handle that first. **Speaker 24:** $16 and we do quick delivery. Yep. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Anything else on 9-1-1? I just put that up for that. Everything calm, quiet, peaceful? Well, we've got a, yeah, we have an email from the state. And they sent us a map. And they didn't agree with some of the numbers. **Speaker 24:** And there's a bunch of camps that don't have a number. And they're talking to us about the fact that there's no number. They're way back home. Miles out on a private road. Not going there. Cool. I think you guys are going to have a great day. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. **Speaker 36:** Thank you. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Thank you. Thank you. Oh. I think you guys should give me permission to ride my wheeler up to all these camps. **Speaker 24:** What am I going to tell them? I don't have a name. I can't give them a number on a private driveway. **Speaker 48:** Well, why are they saying that your numbers are wrong? **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** You guys went out and measured years ago just because they're looking at the maps. **Speaker 49:** They measured years ago. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** That's right. **Speaker 24:** They measured years. That's true. And they did find one that I probably measured wrong. But on the other hand, the homeowner went ahead and it looked like a privated one. They did. took a number didn't use the wrong number that i gave him he took another number to belong he has three adjacent properties in appenwald oh dear the third one had a number assigned 2017 i think and then he bought that lot and two more adjacent lots and then built the house on the middle lot and took the number from one of the other ones and it's close enough i mean the state's saying to us you know it should be 524 and we gave him 520. and no one else has that he's got a lot of **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** time to recheck these that's equal to 20 feet difference yeah i'm not going to change it **Speaker 24:** yeah yeah and i'm not going to ask him to change his deed his insurance his checkbook insurance and we wanted to discuss it first before lori answered **Speaker 48:** the guy and said use your number so is there something uh bob briggs could do **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** if you don't want to go up in the woods i mean uh yeah it does go to the job but but just send **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** them a letter send the owner a letter and just say put it down see what happens i mean to drive up to some of these places even bob i mean you you're talking some of these places aren't easy **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** to get to how did they find them they just it's got an area **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** kid me **Speaker 24:** the aerial map shows a building one of the buildings they showed is a foundation that got a permit 10 15 years ago and there's a four-foot foundation wall and that's it i'm not giving a number i have no idea who owns it anymore so we can look at it some more **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** the rule was if you had electricity you got a 9-1-1 number now with everybody with cell phones and **Speaker 24:** camps and that's what's happening oh i'm tempted since they have somebody with a car equipped with all their magic gps coordinates and accuracy and i thought it was nice he came down here two years ago he said anytime he was in bennington let this guy take it call his own person to go set a number yes try it that way **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** that's what i thought you would hold on no no no no no oh i was thinking you shouldn't have the ice cream delivered **Speaker 50:** yes you want to take a recess **Speaker 39:** i make a motion pam goes down and gets all of us ice cream okay um next ethics commission **Speaker 40:** ethics ordinance are we ever gonna have a full board when we do this well **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** i know we approved it um may 1st and we didn't sign it may 15th because the state state just pulled it out yeah so i'd like to make a motion if i can do this to rescind the motion made on may 1st to accept what we our ordinance and just uh leave out the state yeah just wait until further clarification from the state because you said a lot of the uh towns were pushing back from what you heard on your union that we don't know where it is the state has no ethics is that what you're **Speaker 9:** saying yeah they left what it was that was an uh unfunded mandate basically it was an unfunded mandate right if you're going to do it and then they didn't give us the stuff we needed to they **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** still exist they just don't have anybody working right yeah i saw the website come back later **Speaker 12:** okay second all in favor good all right okay i'm sorry i'm just going to make a suggestion we **Speaker 9:** take a look at uh what we have and just adjust it so it's pertinent to the town yeah just and we can use the state's ideas as a template like but uh just do that and another thing too i don't know if this isn't the same thing uh we had another volunteer to be like her on that group and uh i would just add it to the pool then you see that name yeah um **Speaker 39:** okay it's not added to the pool oh jim's already on it has now um yeah so if we can get together **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** you lori and i like last time review it and see what we can do and i think we gotta make **Speaker 51:** it have a big change no yeah and maybe the state will come up with some more money oh yeah right **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** um joint meeting with the school directors uh cindy gave me three dates june 10th june 12th and june 24th june 12th is out because that could be the zoning bylaw hearing uh june 10th or june 24th what was on the bylaw here if we go ahead with the zoning up **Speaker 39:** i got 25th for the school yeah sorry june 12th is uh yeah **Speaker 40:** bylaws oh okay different different one yeah so that's june 12th yeah sorry about that okay so **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** i'm not going to be here on june 12th sorry i have a big big big big okay june 24th then we'll go **Speaker 39:** with that sorry june 24th sure um and we have to warn this what day is that tuesday tuesday **Speaker 40:** i think we're we better we better **Speaker 52:** it's our regular meeting june 24th is our right how can you have a joint meeting on your regular meeting oh oh you've never been to one of these have you i talk a lot and i do i talk a lot **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** you don't have to warn yours and we'll just warn it that we're going to meet there we shouldn't be making any decisions in there but we should just in order to be transparent **Speaker 2:** be a work session on the select boards end and that's what i was thinking **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** sure i don't care **Speaker 39:** you do it if it's a work session we don't have to warn it can we do it first **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** not last on their agenda because i don't want to listen to all their other stuff well i mean they have an executive session sometimes for 45 minutes or so have ice cream **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** tuesday the 24th what time is your meeting that six i'm just picking on them **Speaker 53:** six or six thirty six actually **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** this meeting you would let lori know so she can stay open i can go fast **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** you don't have to yeah you don't have to stay you can go get ice cream **Speaker 39:** you're not gonna miss anything or be on camera tuesday the 24th beth you'll let **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** lori know warn it as a meeting then we're done okay all right uh review employee policy handbook that is going to be pushed off again unfortunately we'll get to it though yeah **Speaker 2:** correspondence lori i received our milk's club saying that they'll be having their flag day ceremony on saturday june 14th they're inviting you and a guest to come and let's go for ice cream what day june 14th saturday okay if you'd like to go let me know so that they can plan to have it or if not let me know so that i can keep going **Speaker 24:** i've seen pam going into the room **Speaker 23:** i've been invited every year through the club life member **Speaker 53:** i've been a member for 41 years **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** okay so what uh what time is between the time of it's both and all over **Speaker 20:** i'll let lori know yeah i will okay um **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** is that it correspondence what else correspondence lori **Speaker 2:** counting our delinquent dog update the first one for this year we have 19 dogs who are aware of **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** 13 owners if not this point license okay turn it over to loop follow through to loop how about the ones you said there's some that uh aren't on your list but the vets send you their certificate of rabies and go oh these people have a dog that's not registered **Speaker 2:** they think we don't know okay **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** okay but their dog never their dog never leaves the house so yeah yeah to save that what 15 bucks okay what else do you have lori um were you able to get the um road commissioner duty form okay because we signed it uh we adopted it april 3rd signed it but there was um one item missing so if we can readopt this and sign it what's this one it's the job description for the road commissioner **Speaker 39:** dave you will be working every saturday and sunday i like this part about bringing a third **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** including deer season now um alert the select board to long and short range develop a listing of such needs and assist in prioritizing tasks or projects i'm still hiring **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** oh didn't you sign motion second all in favor hi hi huh i'm not ambitious enough not anymore can i use your pen i don't want to shine in purple you can do my job sit there work four hours a day for four days a week sure unless something goes wrong that's the part you gotta watch out for **Speaker 40:** mike do you want to sign i won't sign with red i know you don't like that no that's why i have **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** blown **Speaker 41:** seven years huh **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** seven don't bring it up because i'll start talking about roads again okay um review first **Speaker 39:** quarter financials lori will put them in our box what about old business you skipped right over old **Speaker 40:** business what else old business well i have something that could be old business okay go for **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** it so the sheriff got me oh okay said how you guys doing yeah yeah i figured it's old so he just said um if you he's still available to talk to him if you guys want to talk to him about a contract or any needs to the sheriff's department must be looking i don't know if it's this time of year or whatever if the board decides that they want to pursue that i just told him i would let you know and if you guys want to get back to him then i can at this time he's going to come down and talk to us here if he wants if you want him to he could um he just asked me he says how you guys doing in town if you want um i can give you a new con you know a contract to look at we didn't even have it on the town meeting last year so unless i i mean personally i agree with kurt i think we just can't afford what we want but to what we can't afford is to me it's not worth it well i agree **Speaker 54:** with him just wanted to get something new it's always worth listening yeah i can i can ask him **Speaker 55:** if he wants to come down and just if he has anything if he doesn't want to come down just **Speaker 54:** ask him if there's anything new that you can add to that okay what can you do sure okay sure **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** yeah it might be you never know you might be looking for he may need to fill his book slot yeah **Speaker 53:** yeah so sorry to jump around here but um cindy just got back to me and asked me if you guys at 6 30 start we can do the most of our meetings 6 30 yeah yeah and you mentioned one time you **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** wanted to ask the principal and the superintendent there but do you want on at this meeting with the **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** school board i don't care i think it's all a public meeting so they want they're going to be **Speaker 40:** i think they're just good with the school board right principal to be there right place and yeah principal grows all your meetings right um so what else **Speaker 36:** moving uh i just have to get going but i wanted to take a minute in this area in january first time meeting a lot of ketchup nice to meet you jerry jerry where do you live **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** oh nice **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** stay away from that **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** have a dance take care thank you jerry i guess that's it um any other new business make a motion to go into executive session for personnel matter **Speaker 39:** and we're doing pending or probable civil litigation nothing just a personal person okay **Speaker 40:** second all in favor all right okay thank you all get out go have some ice cream