---
title: "Stamford Select Board — May 1, 2025"
date: 2025-05-01
session: regular
speaker_labels: 1 cluster(s) named from the roll call and that meeting's chair in the minutes, 1 named from roster attendance, 10 of 12 clusters unnamed
voice_ids: {"SPEAKER_00":11,"SPEAKER_01":8,"SPEAKER_02":9,"SPEAKER_03":12,"SPEAKER_04":2,"SPEAKER_05":1,"SPEAKER_08":10,"SPEAKER_09":7,"SPEAKER_10":3,"SPEAKER_11":5,"SPEAKER_12":4,"SPEAKER_13":6}
duration_min: 98
audio: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP93nbnU--I
audio_source: YouTube (@jgramlin78)
minutes: https://townofstamfordvermont.org/mediaItems/Sbd%20Minutes%205-1-25.pdf
minutes_pending: false
present: [Nancy L. Bushika, Douglas Wright, Michael G. Denault, John Dunn, Kurt Gamari]
absent: []
transcribed: 2026-10-12 (faster-whisper large-v3, CUDA; names corrected per data/name_fixes.json)
diarization: pyannote/speaker-diarization-3.1 (automated; cluster labels may over-split a single voice; unattributed paragraphs have no reliable speaker)
---

# Stamford Select Board — May 1, 2025

**Session:** Regular · **Duration:** 98 min · [Audio](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP93nbnU--I) · [Minutes](https://townofstamfordvermont.org/mediaItems/Sbd%20Minutes%205-1-25.pdf)

**Present:** Nancy L. Bushika, Douglas Wright, Michael G. Denault, John Dunn, Kurt Gamari

---
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

**Speaker 1:** I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. I think you'll have to study these.

**Speaker 2:** Oh, so you've written it up different ways, Lord, et cetera, right?

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Mm-hmm. Right. And it does say something in there about he's removing all the old stuff.

Yeah. What was the grant for again? 33. Can you tell?

**Speaker 3:** 36,000.

I can't. What's the difference between the three of them? I mean, I probably, if I dig into the other one, I'll wake up. I mean, I'm probably going to have questions for him. I think we should have. I think so. I mean, the money doesn't look bad. It's just that we don't have anything to compare it to. We only have one of the best ones, really, because if we don't spend it, we're not just going to give it to you.

**Speaker 2:** We've got one for an R value of 16.2. We've got another one for an R value of 18.4. It's different. What was that one? 16 and this. Different insulation. 16 and 18. Yeah, this is only 9.1. Thicker insulation. It's a $1,000 difference. It's a $1,000 difference. This isn't a three-digit difference. What are those numbers?

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** 19 and 10?

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** They're in the 19s.

**Speaker 2:** Yeah, 18.4, 18.4, and then 16.2 and 16.2.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** This is 18.3. It's got an R value of 9.1.

There's a 19 on one of those. Right back.

**Speaker 4:** Second page.

Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. They're not going to give us the money for the 19s even though we spent it. This is more like a little print of the door and everything.

**Speaker 4:** This guy actually came to the manager and everything.

I think that we should give these to Dave. Yeah. Maybe not every piece of hardware. Oh, that's hard work. That doesn't matter. But it doesn't tell me. It doesn't tell me. It doesn't tell me.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** It doesn't tell me all the money because I don't have anything. The doors don't do it on each one. So how many doors are there, David? Three.

**Speaker 5:** And each one is one of those.

**Speaker 2:** So there's one door, there's two doors. There's two that are the same size. Yeah.

**Speaker 6:** It says it's quantity two.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** John, I'm sorry. The first one says quantity two, then quantity three.

**Speaker 2:** Oh, yeah. Two, one, two. There's a total of five then? No.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** No. There's doors.

**Speaker 2:** Oh, no. That's the door operator for like a lift. Yeah.

**Speaker 7:** The door is on that back door.

**Speaker 3:** Three doors for $18,000.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Can you look them over, give us your recommendation, and we can bring it up at next meeting?

Yeah.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** And John, if you want to meet with Dave and look at them or look at them sometime when?

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** You want to wait two weeks or you want to? I'm just saying there's no difference.

**Speaker 8:** What happens to the grand one if you only spend one?

**Speaker 2:** You get the best of the best of the family.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Right. But like John's asking if we had other, can we get the other door fixed with the rest of the grand? Oh, we got 33 or something, 19. Yeah. Yeah. So that one side, how low was that? Five, six hundred bucks. Well, I'm saying can we do it, though, afterwards? Yes. If another bill comes in.

**Speaker 9:** Can we march?

**Speaker 4:** I don't know.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Yeah.

Can we do it? We would have gone for all four doors. That would be expensive. High quality. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

**Speaker 4:** Yeah. Yeah.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** The istOurself would love to get that one fixed. Oh, but the assessment came from the three garage doors and the man door. Yeah. So you could do the man door at a separate time.

**Speaker 10:** You could do the man door.

**Speaker 1:** All right. I don't know what you could add on a fourth door Хunder the grand.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** No, I'm not. I'm asking . The man door was not quoted. Right. We could throw that in for a quote or for the bent.

**Speaker 11:** We could get something else to do. Agreed.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** We can get something else to. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just saying so we'd make sure we can get it paid for at the end. And I don't have a problem with it being the best of the best. It's going to be covered. I mean, why not get the best? So if you need, if you want to do it before two weeks, before you come back, as long as I would like to give Dave the option to say this is what I want, if he's happy, I don't see the board holding it up for two weeks.

**Speaker 4:** My guess is some of it, he's got it in there to replace the existing motors because those are fairly, you know, if he did that with your house or garage, he might want to. Oh, you mean with them doors without a motor on them? No, but you may need the old ones because they're workable.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** So I'm saying if you look at this and you say I'm good with it, I don't have a problem with making a motion to put the decision in Dave's hands.

**Speaker 4:** I think we should replace it. I'm fine with that.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** It's fine.

**Speaker 4:** We're asking Dave to look at it. I agree with that.

He's going to come back. Two weeks from now, we're going to have to ask him. I agree with that. What about the motors?

**Speaker 4:** That's what I was just talking about. That might be some of the cost increase, but I would just replace them.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Oh, yeah.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** If you need to add to this and it's within the grant, again, I don't have a problem with that.

**Speaker 2:** So I don't get it all done with that. Try to get him to put the other door in, too. He wants it. Yeah.

**Speaker 12:** But you can get a price on that from, like you said, just go get a price.

**Speaker 4:** Yeah, I can get somebody else to give me a credit.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Yeah.

**Speaker 4:** I'm kind of working with this guy down the road. Right.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** All we need is a quote. Right. I won't go for that. But if I can, I want to make the motion that Dave may make the decision as long as it falls within the grant.

**Speaker 4:** I agree. Yeah. Now, do you want me to get, like, different prices from different people on the side door, or do you want me to call somebody and get a price? It's reasonable. Yeah. Oh, yeah. $100,000. We're only getting one bid on, like, that. I can't imagine that there's going to be very much of it. We're only getting one bid on the $30,000. How are we going to get a bid on $700,000? This is the problem with Stamford. I don't want to hold it up. That's my problem.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Okay. You made a motion to let Dave take the option that.

**Speaker 2:** Could we buy the door and have him put it in and use the grant money to pay Dave? For his hours putting it in? Or is that, like, not allowed? Oh, God.

**Speaker 13:** Yeah, because he's got too much to do.

**Speaker 2:** We have him here. He's got $12,000 to put it in.

**Speaker 3:** He's got too much to do. On your head again. Now, as long as you stay within the spirit of what the grant was for it, it's a boy, a well-insulated man door.

Right. Right. I definitely wanted to do this, but I didn't think it was the door's fault. The door.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Yeah.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** So, we, Mike made a motion. We approved it. All in favor?

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Aye.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Okay. Lori. All right. Hearing of visitors. Yes, Maureen.

**Speaker 14:** Last call for Green Up Day is on Saturday. If it's raining, it's just canceled. So, I hope it doesn't rain until 1130. That would be great. We could get all the trash picked up beforehand. Or dress accordingly. Or dress accordingly, yeah. I mean, last Sunday it rained.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** It rained all day, but it was just a drizzle.

I know. I know.

**Speaker 14:** So, you know, I'm personally not going to cancel it unless it's boring. I'll be out there. But, yeah. And then also, May 10th, Resilience Fair. We'll be posting some things on Facebook about it very soon.

**Speaker 4:** If for some reason it gets canceled, and I mean, we have a lot of people, they may want to do it next week or something like that. They still bring it to the dump with their green bag. They can take that, right?

**Speaker 14:** Yeah. Sure. You and I should talk about how they would get their green bags. I mean, if they show up, if they show up, get a green bag that is too rainy. Yeah. Okay.

**Speaker 4:** If it gets too rainy, but they want to go out next week and pick up trash. Great. Or any day during the week. Okay.

**Speaker 13:** We should still take the trash. Or any day during the week. Or any day. Yeah. Any day. Green day. It's every day.

Sorry.

**Speaker 14:** I can still have an unopened bag of green bags here at the office. We've got bags galore, so okay. Great. Maybe keep that here in case somebody wants to pick one up from the office.

Great. Anything else from visitors?

**Speaker 2:** I'd like to say something. The state of Vermont on my side of town has been cleaning ditches and reseeding and doing that type of work. So just keep an eye out. They're working their way this way. I don't know how far they're going to go, but. Are they trenching them? They're just cleaning them right out. They look good. Yeah. So.

And I know they picked up trash a couple weeks ago.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** It's nice to see them. I know they did Room 9 before winter.

So they're probably just working their way this way.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I have one question.

Maybe some advances. I know the electric company has been coming in and staking for what's coming. New pole system or whatever they're putting in through Stamford. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

**Speaker 15:** I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. And I don't know. But, I don't know if they ready to take the. Only I know they've put in. There's one. New pole system. Or whatever they're putting in HP. How does that work? I noticed in my field that they put in a couple. You know, did in a couple. They're gonna unreasonable to cross over and come across the front part of can be. So, I see two stakes down there and then, straight, closer to 운동 guys road, there's two stakes and then there's one up into the field a little bit. All right.

**Speaker 16:** Looks like you're going to add some poles.

**Speaker 15:** So I'm thinking they're going to add a safety wire there and cross back over the road probably. Uh-oh. But what is the rules on that? A certain amount of feet from the center of the road. Well, I was told there right away it's supposed to be up the white line there. That's what the boss said. I'm just wondering what the electric company, do they have the right just to put a pole up in the middle of your park on your property? No, they have a piece of it.

**Speaker 4:** They're usually working either down the highway or the state. Or the state.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** And we don't have any easements.

Did we get any easements from them? So they're probably all in the state right away.

**Speaker 2:** Is it actually four poles or are they planning on blacktopping? Because a lot of times with their blacktopping, they stake where the color lines cross the road. So when the crews are blacktopping, they know where the lines are.

**Speaker 15:** I talked to the engineer, and they're revamping all the lines north from south all the way north. And so. So all these states you see, you'll see two states with white flags, and then you'll see one with an orange flag. The one with the orange flag is the, I think that's the guy on it. So, and you can kind of read it to see where they're, what he's doing now, so he can work on details and it's good. But yeah, I'm just wondering, do they in Vermont, I don't know this, in Vermont, do they just have an automatic easement onto your property? Because. I wouldn't think so. I'm going to go down and pull that damn stake off. It's not automatic. I mean, there might be an easement to play.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** They put a stake on I-10 on Meshika Road, and the next day, the stake was gone. They put it in the wrong place. I think they changed it. Because I don't care less.

**Speaker 4:** Because the state of Vermont, when they're here, yearly meetings.

Oh, maybe. Where they put them, it didn't work. So they may have went back and changed them. Oh, yeah.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Well, we're going to have this one. I would. I wish I could get them to go up my driveway instead of where the mine was. We've had issues with the property before.

With a transformer. No way. They put the power. Oh, I know that.

**Speaker 15:** They put it in the center of the road. Well, they're supposed to be replacing all the older ones, the smaller ones. You can see where there's already, some of them have been changed there. They put flags on them. Some of them are new. New and nice. There's a bunch of dumps where they've changed. But they're crossing. They're crossing the road.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Well, by themselves.

**Speaker 15:** No. They're crossing the road. They used to go right through the woods.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** From Lincoln Road to the main road.

**Speaker 17:** Yeah.

**Speaker 15:** And then right across the street from Therians. They're up in the woods. Jim Therians. They're up in the woods. And then they cross. They're crossing over to my spot. Over to my land. With this new system. And then they're going through two poles. And then they're crossing. back over but and then they said my power goes up through the woods there's an easement that

**Speaker 18:** goes up through um the woods right to my old cross this is my boy's house then he cropped

**Speaker 16:** then he go down to chicago and they cross again yeah yeah they follow the old roads yeah when i

**Speaker 15:** lose power yeah well they cross they cross the river in the air and there's a yeah i can reach they haven't come to the board i remember they had they have to come here now that i'm talking about it right there they have to come

**Speaker 19:** to the media to look into like the easements and stuff that they have right they have people

**Speaker 3:** that are hired to go out with a written easement and they've got to get you to sign the beginning of those replacement power poles where when dv fiber was coming through and they spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to survey all of the polls in the 23 towns and anything that the electric company or the telephone company said

**Speaker 20:** was not safe they replaced right you don't recall there was a couple of guys walking around taking

**Speaker 12:** photos oh yeah yeah yeah when they're on town roads

**Speaker 21:** all right so that's on the state highway so i purposely asked just to got to this here in town

**Speaker 15:** with the b-trend guy and i said what is and plus the recent controversy about the setbacks here i mean i did go all the way up here and i pretty much went from one block to 12 feet from the white line here yeah 25 feet from the center line so i actually took a ruler from my in my different yard to that stake and it's 30 i don't know like 30 something 37 feet or something like that i'm like this thing is gone i think it's like 10 feet on the property and off the easement so

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** i'm not allowed to go on there right away

**Speaker 22:** sorry

**Speaker 2:** yeah i wouldn't pull this back here uh check your moment the land records in there when they put 100 through there's like for each piece of property that 100 went through there's a breakdown where all that is there's actually like cement pillars off of the road so many feet there is one cement filter right across the street all the infills in the books

**Speaker 13:** in that pocket all right okay conditions oh oh sorry still are we still on hearing yeah i'm sorry i didn't see your hand dev i i would like to address all of these emails that all of us have gotten today um very inflammatory and consumed all of our time i don't know if everybody but has read them from dave's house but i'm not happy with the way it was presented i'd like to ask you guys in the future i think anything from dave i mean we're talking four emails i don't know what he wants what he's proposing half the information is not accurate i don't want it to be the gospel i think everything should be filtered through you before it gets disseminated out to everybody i mean he

**Speaker 23:** i think he's using lori as a kind of like a middle person and just filtering her and

**Speaker 7:** she's got enough to do during the day and as a citizen technically because he's not sending it from a board i don't believe i i haven't seen it just says dave i think that anything that he has with an issue he needs to address either deb or a board and then it can be sent out to the other boards from the select board maybe or from the board yourself so it's not going to be separate again an instruction from the slack board to Lori I just think that it gets it starts to get just a little too crazy and it's like I feel bad that she's wasting her time sending out all these emails and she's got enough to do in her day so

**Speaker 13:** they're not real accurate he made reference to me a couple of times that he's asked me to do things I've not spoken with mr. Saldo since last year last last town meeting would be usurped the microphone so I don't I don't want bad information going out it's not fair it's very inflammatory and until the

**Speaker 24:** facts are known I don't think it should go out it is why I'm upset because it's

**Speaker 15:** it's terrible it's just that I got it and it is it's inflamed

**Speaker 4:** I got a call from the paving company there's gonna be

**Speaker 2:** while you're on this up to the rain we had a group of people here we used to go complaining about the sports club road culverts and stuff like that anything

**Speaker 4:** but none of that so I did get a price replacement call the color itself is fifty five hundred dollars we only have four thousand on our budget there is a great I could put in for a grant the grants do in December and won't be out till this time next year not gonna be done this summer unless you guys want to full rescind I guess now there are the next thing I'm gonna bring up is that our grant and heed traffic so that I can try and get my funeral segments so I went around with Jim Henderson we last week we identified some problems on sports roads that are undersized so for 2025 we picked a section and then for 2026 there will be another section and then for 26 it'll be another section and then for 2025 it'll be another section but i could do both sections to some of them waiting to see how much money i have before i open the colors because it's open so 200 feet of color so i want to make sure that let me

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** uh ask you i missed it you said we have four thousand dollars in fixed calls right all right i don't understand why the budget's so low on coverage um we've talked about this many times how many colors we have in town there's a lot of a lot of side like older roads the class four roads that are really bad i know that i know that it's not priority but if we don't fix them it's going to be big problems and there's there's some that are destroyed sure you know this horseman road that's another issue but maybe uh we ought to start thinking about just like we do with other other i also talked to the state today and they told me and i can't remember the numbers but there was quite a bit of culverts on the state road and he said every time they build a home or something changes they don't replace they take them away so i was saying so if you take a call say you had 20 culverts on this road now you're down to 10. the water's got to go somewhere is that affecting our roads you know are we having issues i'd say lincoln road because they don't have a good culvert now or i don't know i'm just right i'm saying that he was telling me that they actually put callers away on the state road many of them he said that's one of the reasons why they're flooding not not so much for you know wetter lands and the fields yeah well all right they're right i won't say it's the men's fault but the money is the same way they got along we got this much for this we got there much for that the thing is come november

**Speaker 3:** or december remember this i just made a note i always remember we get into budget you get into the budget and the last minute to say how much less can we do

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** and now it comes back and bites you i agree i agree i'm all for spending some more money and maybe you know because protecting i think that preventative maintenance is better than when we wait until it we have big problems you you could talk to you blew in the face to some people who are like we don't want to spend any money it's all about you spend money now you save money you know the greatest example was when we brought the uh excavator we'll get a bunch of these at whole town now because we spent some money

**Speaker 4:** i have no problems it did cut the manpower though because when we hired contractors that was another you know source of manpower too sure and we had we used to have well we had one point we had three guys we had hard times on our health we need to solve it unfortunately you gotta wait like mud

season wiped off my summer budget for the most part for gravel i mean you can see in here 22 000 that's one that's just one contract

**Speaker 4:** able to cover the stone and the other bill i think was 15. it pretty much does every year yeah every year there's only forty thousand dollars for buildings and it's not but we two guys can only do so much right that's the thing you put all the money you want in there if i don't

**Speaker 25:** get time to do it all i understand we don't think that comes right back we're gonna get around we

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** gotta we gotta get i mean you're a big guy but we gotta get you into a wrist block and hold it down and make it clear

**Speaker 25:** it all goes back to

**Speaker 4:** talk about paving and it it needs to really be looked at for the long term it people are going to cost you money but you got crazy and then guess what the work that you did doesn't take long and it needs to be done again paving solves a lot of those issues you don't have to revisit it you know constantly and the quality of life on the road is better because you're not you know beating your car to death all spring and summer

**Speaker 3:** is there a place for a two or three year position for a third person before you work out the paving you can do that if you want to

**Speaker 4:** want to do that to somebody hire them and you know part-time i have to get rid of them i mean the part-time i just you're not i'm looking i don't want to be a babysitter we can't hire somebody for 20 bucks an hour and expect that they're they're going to do something all they're going

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** to do is slow us down i i think it's a big deal i think it's a big deal discussion but i think that uh it's not only a third guy but it's in the future i mean let's let's face it you may have seen this many times how long you have left yeah it's coming out of the corner time goes by like that you know you gotta start looking at hiring someone and if it takes either we hire a train or we have to hire someone how are we going to steal someone from the state

to hire and try to get home when we get someone who wants to

**Speaker 4:** care i don't see you getting somebody here to do anything for less than 30 bucks an hour

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** yeah but we have to start looking at the way they choose and that again it's a long discussion we need to sit down and talk about it maybe some kind of you know a special budget meeting or something we can look at because uh you just can't be the weeks of december no and you know dave we i'm all for payment i told you that before oh i mean not bad payment too money's the money you know i better choose it spending too much money in the town now that's you know let's spend money and look everything that we've ever spent seems to come back and help us but nevertheless i mean i'm for doing both we have to look at filling your shoes in the future and

**Speaker 25:** that's not that long enough i'm looking at some of these roles that i just created well sure

**Speaker 4:** yeah we could go sorry to start a good job yeah you can't stop it and then it gets to the point where i needed three days and then every

**Speaker 12:** couple weeks you have to which is another issue you got like i don't want to pay for sheriff i

**Speaker 2:** didn't want to pay for his radar sign but that people don't want to pay for payment or roads

**Speaker 3:** we pay we don't want to pay for the sheriff to spend three hours a week that's all right yeah but the priority is to pay for shore road right because you know you're going to get a quick payback on it in three to four years it's going to pay for itself so and that's what i'm saying

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** is we we didn't we didn't spend 70 000 on a sheriff but we didn't take that money and put it in the highway fund that's what i'm you know why why can't we take we saved i'm sure why can't we take that money and put some of that in the highway fund and say this is going to pay that

**Speaker 3:** in a year a year and a half ago that money would be better spent in paving right but it didn't get

**Speaker 4:** spent at all you know the days you know that day that i have to really go back and regrading something i could be out putting a call in you know the money that's that's the money you don't see right you know where i actually got something else done because i mean let's face it there's some places that are just low priority compared to others that i just never get to and it's not that

**Speaker 26:** we shouldn't i just there's only so many hours in a day right that would be our discussion well

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** we did ask dave a while ago if you think of anybody and we put it in the minutes oh i don't

**Speaker 4:** need a third man but your the wage is you you got to start something while other people are already making it right and then we got to bump other people up you know and then you got to have the funding to keep them busy right so it's the whole entire budget it's not just hiring employees and you know what we have over again by the time you're done you know 30 hours an hour is a good

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** one um what else do you have dave you're grading you're talking about paving um last year for the safety the loss control follow-up for the garage you've got the emergency lights have they been installed no and the eyewash has that been installed i haven't put it up can you do both of those in your spare time yeah and maybe get one other go through the list and get one other thing for this year so we can show them that we're trying to comply with them have

**Speaker 4:** you looked at the garage lately like i mean after no no everything's a disaster you come in it's all full of sand and the whole stuff it's all on the floor like i need a maid a third person

**Speaker 27:** i need a third person

**Speaker 4:** i had to spend like three days i'm not going to be both you know an hour a day before you go home an hour a day that's crazy you know i don't want to say what else do you have on road conditions

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** okay recycling oh you want something yeah sorry

i have a rose okay

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** nothing on recycling the recycling center opened wednesday yesterday right

**Speaker 28:** for the summer hours i got the first punch oh okay

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** discussion ethics commission update um i don't think there was any update on it it's just that we're going to review the code of ethics investigation and enforcement evidence yep so did everybody have a chance to read the blue and yellow that came through and

**Speaker 29:** are we finally good with this looks good motion sign

**Speaker 2:** it looks good motion signed

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** so is that it all in favor all right okay so now lori will have to because it's an ordinance it has to um yes got to go in the newspaper for so many days and 60 days probably whatever it is and then it will be checked and approved that took a lot of work a lot of back and forth a lot of learning review and re-sign road commissioner job description i left that with the word clean garage

how about if the cleanup day is canceled we get all the guys in there there you go

**Speaker 2:** i'm just saying right now right now

**Speaker 14:** you know maybe if it's raining instead of green update we should do a bus update

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** can we skip down to sign the social service agreement policy just to sign it and then we'll go back to an employee policy handbook that's going to be in discussion we did approve that last meeting

**Speaker 4:** we're not going to do a job description

how come my name is way down

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** is

okay we'll see you later we're still in for that election

**Speaker 19:** we're going to go flip the outwash and the light bulb

Molly's going to be the third person yeah

**Speaker 3:** they can start sweeping for the first two weeks right after they see the door as long as the damn door doesn't fall on a person sweeping haha

**Speaker 2:** uh i don't know i talked to other crews and neighboring towns and i've been told hey man they're paying me i'll do whatever they want me to do so it's like you're in pages do they have more meds your guy has done over 45 on their time yeah like i go up on the roof i shovel the snow i cut the grass i'm getting paid i'll do it

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** just they do it do they have more men more employees like three guys before about the same size yeah minutes from the wonder why he was sure that I skipped it skip over it I'm saying approval of records and orders so everybody sign here and sign the book okay can I have a motion to move second so all in favor all right thank you okay review the employee policy handbook Laurie sent it to us guys go through it no someone that way I think it would agree with that should we worry and wait here with Alice because she's an employee here and one of the selecting we can do to selecting and Lauren without having a meeting committee warning right it's entirely up to you it just didn't work well I'll work on it with somebody

**Speaker 30:** okay I guess where are you and I are at I'll help if I can't can you make sure

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** after turkey season oh when does that end oh wait a minute do you turkey hunt all day or is it certain

**Speaker 5:** hours okay after one o'clock all right oh yeah but then you go out in the

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** afternoon too right no no that's not he goes out fishing fishing oh well

**Speaker 3:** problem

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** we'll see if we can work around the turkey season

**Speaker 3:** the orders that he made from the turkey season yup it's ready

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** yup

no waste

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** correspondence Laurie or anything else in the discussion okay

**Speaker 30:** old business

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I just have a question the planning board was working on the bylaws where is that at now

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** we have set a meeting they gave us the bylaws

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** yeah so where are we at now

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** we have set a meeting for June 12th at 6 p.m. public hearing June 12th and if it's approved then we're good and it's only the sign that's the only part they've changed

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** so we might get a sign by August

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** we don't know

**Speaker 15:** it's time for winter time you can put it in now I don't understand why you put it in now

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** what size do we need now

**Speaker 15:** you just go under the current you go under the current law that we have okay okay

sorry sorry I never mentioned that sign again I'm just guessing they also one of your moves all over the sign okay while you're asking about the rules the whole thing

**Speaker 3:** yes the one that we took and put in under a way and then can we bring it back here the discussions are going you want that on the building right yeah we're going to mount it on the building but let's put a flag on it we really need to put it here bring it back here next to the generator yup so that we can talk to a contractor sure about that yes I've got approval from the school board they've got no concern about putting it on the building

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** but can that sign go up on the building it needs a permit I don't think so no

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** no no

**Speaker 11:** not to go on the building

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** not to go on the building

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** not to go on the building put the sign on the building

**Speaker 13:** Jim am I right not to go on the building it shouldn't but somebody will complain I don't care

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** that's all he needs

no just I'll get this people in town just don't like change

**Speaker 13:** no

**Speaker 7:** move furniture around

**Speaker 13:** I mean look at it this way you could paint Stamford Vermont on the building right it would not require a permit in my opinion putting a sign on the building does not require a permit prove me wrong please

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** no deal

**Speaker 31:** right

**Speaker 13:** so I'm not going to go try to but then again I'm not supposed to say anything without it being in right hand but then again I'm not supposed to say anything without that out it being in right hand so I'm not supposed to say anything without that out it being in right hand out it being in writing so give me the permit and I'll say not necessary

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** no Jim when you just said that that's really a new thing for me if it bothers me that Deb can't say no I don't need it

**Speaker 31:** we made a motion I can't do it anymore I can't talk to anybody

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I know okay we'll get a piece of paper yes I can't it don't matter we'll get the sign down there I have no problem putting the sign out it's a good sign up what's going to do with the sign I'll just sign it up when we figure it out is what we can have we'll have our mail left here in a couple of hours

**Speaker 15:** they went through a whole year I wasn't around for that process didn't get it that's it I had a new business too

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** oh Doug's got it

**Speaker 5:** okay what I'm going to ask you I actually have a question for Deb there and please put all this stuff about the inflammatory emails aside okay those weren't for me I do have some questions oh I know they work for you huh I know they work for you oh no a couple of things I saw the letter that you responded to Nancy with about the work that's going on down here and and and you didn't think there was a change of permit needed or change for that use change needed because it's the same thing it's a charitable organization 501c3 yeah well but here's the thing first of all 501c3 what that has to do that's a tax related thing that has nothing to do with permits or building or I understand unless you're making I can see if you're using it to make the point that it is charitable but that really has nothing to do with it now the other thing here is that there's not a change of abuse and I did some looking into that we would hope the church is charitable but a church is a pious establishment a pious organization and as a matter of fact before they could the congregation could sell they had to desanctify the building so to say that's a continuation of use 502 502 503 specifically what the activities are going to be we don't and we don't really know much about anything okay let me kind of shut up maybe we can do it but we don't we don't know anything about it and uh i think there should be a permit to if there's a change of use because yet yes there's a change of use it's still going to be a charitable organization but it's not being used as a church and i do think that the town of the people of town have some right to know what this change of use is going to be right now elsewhere knowing is that there's work going on there and that's it

**Speaker 13:** okay everybody all right you first well the decision i made was that there was no change of use required first of all it's we don't even have a change of use in our bylaws a conditional use we do but not a change of use That verbiage is nowhere in our bylaws. So, and also, it is more, so if monks went in there and did meditation, that, you're saying that wouldn't be a change of views? This is yoga, it's spiritual health, meditation, so it's a fine line. I mean, if you, I feel it's not a change of views. The deed says, I mean, the follow of the deed, it still is of mind, body, health. Churches are of mind, body, health. So, how would you want it written? I'm asking, because I quarry pretty much the whole state of Vermont, and most of the people that came back and said change of views, they have it written. It's written in their bylaws, and it's very specific. The people that were kind of more in line with what I'm thinking said, no, it's not a change of views. It's kind of like you have a retail store that sells candy, and you go in and you change everything. You've got all new displays, and they're selling socks. Same thing, change of views. Yes. So. It was tricky. I'm not discounting either way. I mean, it took me a long time to come to that decision, and I went through the VLCT, and like the BCRC, I queried other zoning administrators. Jim and I had this conversation. Being a past zoning administrator, I could not find, even in our permitting, how I would even write that up.

**Speaker 5:** Okay. What is the state? Does the state require a change of views? Nope. All right. I had a question before.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Local zoning on that. Before we go to Jen. I'm sorry. Laurie, I have a piece of land up on Riscoo Manitoba, about across the street from my camp, and I'm taxed as one piece of land. Yep. Is that the same thing down here? Could they do it?

**Speaker 1:** The land has to be touching and in the same name. So.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** But if they put it in the same name, is that land touching?

**Speaker 13:** It is. Or is it? Yeah. It's contiguous. The road separates that. Right. That's what I'm saying.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Up at Riscoo Manitoba, the road goes between them.

**Speaker 32:** Yes.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** You know, the Riscoo Manitoba goes between my two pieces of land. Yep. But I'm taxed as one piece of land because the road's the only thing.

**Speaker 31:** They can combine.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** And I was just wondering if that is contingent or is it going up the road? I don't know. I'm just asking.

**Speaker 1:** I haven't looked at the maps. Okay. If it is touching.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** So couldn't they just pay? I just wanted to make sure with the address part of it. Couldn't they just call it out one address if they wanted to?

**Speaker 30:** No.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** You need it for 911 separate addresses.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** That's separate. Then taxes though.

**Speaker 15:** I think we're kind of over this. It's a very, very unique. Deb and I have talked at length at this. And I agree 100% with Deb in her decision. I'm sorry. Did I step on something here? Yes. Well, I didn't see his hand.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** That's all right.

**Speaker 33:** You weren't called on. No, I hadn't.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Jeff?

**Speaker 33:** I know that the state of Vermont considers churches private property. Therefore, it's still private property, no matter which way it goes. Even though people can go there and do things on that property. But it's not just . It's still considered private property. So there's really no change in use. So there's no bezel feed on it, right?

**Speaker 13:** No. No. It's classes. They're free. They're free.

**Speaker 14:** That are free to all of except for someone who comes in as a private contractor. Right. Or something. Yeah. OK. No.

**Speaker 13:** No. No. Like somebody, an instructor that would come in and have to be paid. Then the class. But for Stamford residents, it's still free. But they're paying for the instructor. They have to pay for the instructor.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Yeah.

**Speaker 5:** So. No. No. No. No. Go ahead.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** So in our zoning bylaws. Should we put something in there, change of use?

**Speaker 13:** Well, that was where I was going with this. I think there are so many things in the bylaws that need to be fine tuned. It seems like every, Jim, help me out here. Every situation that I come up against is not in our bylaws. And it really has to be, so I can't literally interpret the bylaws. It really has to be, you know, looking at the state. Looking at how other towns handle it. And then you really have to come to a decision. Because it's not black and white.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** So could we charge the planning commission to, when they go back to the zoning bylaws, put that in there?

**Speaker 34:** I'm disgusted with that line.

**Speaker 13:** There are so many other things. That's why I was disappointed that this sign is the only thing you guys are addressing in this vote. There are so many. So many. So many important things that need to be addressed. But you go to the plan. I won't even go anymore. Because you go to the planning commission meeting and you might as well throw the agenda right out the window. It just turns into a free for all.

**Speaker 31:** And that's the way it's been for years.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** That's how my new business will get to that.

**Speaker 1:** Good.

**Speaker 15:** Okay. If I might add on to the church thing. It's like. So you guys charge me. When there was a lull in AOs here which asked me to come back temporarily to take care of a couple of matters. And so I did. And I looked at deeds. I looked at what they were actually doing. They are a licensed farm for wellness and all that stuff. And in fact, the language in their deed and the language in the church's deed are very similar. In fact, the bill of sale on the church, and you guys will probably know this, that the language says that it has to continue as the Bible. I don't know how to proceed.

**Speaker 17:** Noun sorted.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** It has contingencies on it.

**Speaker 15:** Right. It's contingencies and it's the same contingencies as the church. Right. So that's where I came to the conclusion with, all right, they're doing the same thing. It's the same thing as what the church was doing. Whether it's desanctified or whatever that, you know, whatever that is. But it is a tricky thing. It's just what it's got to say.

**Speaker 18:** And it's not in our Bible.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I have a couple of quick questions about permits, though. So there's no business at the moment. No one came to you from that property, property owner, and asked you if they needed a permit, right? Yeah. So you didn't have to give them in writing. Nope. So right now, you just have townspeople coming to you. Correct. Second is, I know there's state laws, okay? So they did renovate some of their property. I wouldn't consider it a demo. I would consider it a renovation. Yeah, it wasn't a demo. Have you been in there? For the laws? I've been in there many times. Since they did it? No. Okay. No, but I will stop talking. What I'm asking is, is it the towns? I know the Board of Health, that's one of the towns. But is it the town's duty to look into permits for state permits? And the reason why I ask that question is there's been people that they came, they did work, they got permits in the town, but didn't get state permits. The town apparently at the time didn't tell them. And they got in trouble for the state. That's the owner's problem, not the town's. Am I correct? That is correct. Yes.

**Speaker 13:** It's incumbent. Yeah. Right. Well, it all, it trickles down to state permits. So I understand a Board of Health problem.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Is there a town mayor burning tires in the back? The abatement, the lead, all of that stuff, the abatement thing that you're referring to, in the state law, it refers to the demoing part of it. I've done a bunch of research on this because of the Lincoln building that got, not the Lincoln, but .

**Speaker 15:** I get it. I get it. Yep. So, it's not a demo. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. There is state regulations. And we all know it's as simple as this. You buy your house anywhere, what's the first thing that they make you do before you get a mortgage? Lead-based paint. Disclosure. Lead and asbestos. Yep. Asbestos. Yep. Okay? So that's where all this language is coming from. It is amazing. If you do demolition, even if it's partial demolition, technically, you're supposed to have an inspector. Right. Not a state permit, but a state permit. Right. permit, but a contractor, I just got off the phone with a contractor, in fact, he just texted me, he said he'd be more than happy to come here and talk to the board to let you guys know that what, yes, it's up to the contractors, it's up to the landowners or to the house, the people who owns the place, to have, if you're selling the house, to have this stuff readily available, right, that's what they did, and there's what they found

**Speaker 2:** out about it. The town had an opportunity to buy the property, you had to go in there and inspect the place,

**Speaker 35:** right, and they gave us a full booklet of what their analysis was of the building.

**Speaker 15:** So then they demoed the partial, partial of the garage got demoed, right, and so, but, you guys got them certificates, you know, as a select board, you know, that it was perfectly safe for them to do. Now, did they, well, what this gentleman told me, the person who is absolutely responsible for this is the people who come and pick up the garbage, the dumpsters, the stuff, all that, they can't get rid of it unless they have a certificate.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Oh, yeah, but all the landowners are responsible for it, huh? Landowners are also responsible. Landowners are also responsible at the end of the day. Long day. At the end of the day, absolutely. If you got rid of asbestos, if you had asbestos and you bought your house and said, you have asbestos there. Just like you and the business would come up. Right. You get rid of it, you're responsible. Right.

**Speaker 15:** But I'm just saying, she doesn't need anything else.

**Speaker 32:** So, the next thing.

**Speaker 13:** In this situation, just so, the gentleman, the contractor's name is Lincoln, I think he lives up on Jetson. He, when he was doing the inside, brought to our attention. Several things, you know, we're, we're not going to pull up the flooring, we're going to just cover it up, which is right. So, he's very, very well versed on asbestos and lead and all of that, knowing that you have to encapsulate rather than pull everything out. So, I think, and I, it, it happens so fast. None of us have actually got to look at it, but I really have to believe that there was nothing there. Yeah. It was covered in vinyl. There was no siding behind it. So, whether it was gone years ago, it was wood. Right. They took down unpainted wood. Yeah.

**Speaker 15:** Just with the alcohol. So, this is, this has nothing to do with the planning commission. It has nothing to do with the AOL. And I, and I, that's right. It has nothing to do with asbestos or lead.

Right. It says everything. I'm just saying that that's. So, my, I have one more question from Denville.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** If the church was still there. And they wanted to put up a building, they would need a permit, right? Yes. And if they wanted to put up a sign, they would need a permit. Absolutely. And so on. Right. Just like anybody else. The only thing is this change of use, which you're saying is not even in the bylaws, right? So, and then if they want to start a business, if there was a business, so if there was a package store in there or something, they would need to come and ask for that.

**Speaker 13:** It would be then, we would call it a conditional use, it would go in front of the planning commission. At that point.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** And they would say, you have, you have hours of, you know, you're, you're open at. Lighting and parking lot.

**Speaker 5:** Yeah. Okay. Okay. I can finish up here. Uh, just a personal opinion, but I disagree with this, the fine line between it being a religion and spiritual, a religion is an organized movement, and he has a specific rituals, things of this thing. I'm all for the spiritual, that's fine, but I don't see where that's the same thing.

**Speaker 13:** But, but it, that's, I'm not saying it's a building. We're talking about the building. I'm not talking about the actions, the, yeah, the actions.

**Speaker 5:** No, but we're talking, I'm sorry, I was going to say change of, change of use. There has been a change of use because of the desertification or sanctification. There has been a change of use. Now, the other thing I'm wondering about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What's going on with the, uh, what is it, the Katie's Creamery there? I'm not sure. Did they have that? Well, that's something I didn't even know.

**Speaker 36:** They have state permits.

**Speaker 13:** Huh? They, they don't need a permit from me. They have state, they are licensed, or they have permits from the state for sanitation and, and food handling and all of that.

**Speaker 5:** Well, I have no problem with that. I'm just asking, apparently that's becoming part of the property there. I mean, you're letting them use it. They're letting them use it. It's nothing like. It's nothing like. It's a food truck. It's a food truck. I see what you're saying. There's no permit use in town. Correct. But I just want to make these points now. And another thing that bothers me, we are looking, every time we look around, where can we get the money for this? Where can we get the money for that? And now, we have, we did some figuring the other day between that property being taken off the tax rolls. Well, it wasn't on the tax rolls, but potentially it could have been. And then, the Stone Lion Farming Company. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

**Speaker 7:** I guess not on the tax rolls. They're all on the tax rolls. They're on the tax rolls! They're on the tax rolls. Stelya burned her. You can't Georgie, you can't- The thing is, we're starting to open up a can of worms, and that's a good point. Like, you're about, you're talking about wasting money, you're about to lose money. If you keep going, and somebody's actually doing something the correct way and doing things the way she should be, you're about to lose a lot of money. You can't actually have a problem.

**Speaker 13:** That's what I'm saying, like as far as- She doesn't have to pay taxes.

**Speaker 19:** As far as we're concerned, she has said- That's all I can say about what Pete's saying right now. of change comes a time where we try to do something positive, there seems to be this momentum forward to stop it. And it has nothing to do with anything else other than to stop it. It's got nothing to do with this, it's got nothing to do with the fact that it was a church. It's just like these hidden vendettas that people want to do and push forward to stop any type of change, positive direction that may come to town.

**Speaker 5:** Okay, can I make a point on that? Can I make a point on that? I agree, do things the right way. I have a question now, and I'm out of vendetta, who am I against? I don't know if it's you, but this is a sentiment that goes around. I have a question. I am concerned. They are paying taxes to the town? Yes. She doesn't have to, but she does, yeah. Was it the church? Was it the church?

**Speaker 37:** No, the church is the defense.

**Speaker 2:** All right, that's fine. So was it the line?

**Speaker 5:** That was my concern.

**Speaker 2:** So this is a group and an entity that came into their town. And they bought that church. You're lucky she's not torn down and made it a parking lot. That's a historical building. She's put money into the place. And everything she's done in town has made it better. She bought the lion's farm. That place was all overgrown. She put new fences in. Did you see animals there?

**Speaker 19:** There's been a summit in the town up her ass, excuse my language, since she's moved here. It's a vendetta. It's got nothing to do with anything else.

**Speaker 13:** I even heard somebody. Well, I don't think so. A town official, not any of you guys, I actually heard, which I couldn't believe, is there's this rumor going around that this is a big front for something. And it didn't just come from one person.

**Speaker 19:** It all over. Change happens. Otherwise, we'd be sitting here in Nakers. She's got a beat to it. Change happens.

**Speaker 1:** Yeah. CPR certified. I am too. And she's.

**Speaker 2:** Oh, the town just told me in person, or I'm sure a number of people, she's willing to open it up to the town for town use.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** How do we know? Now, how do we know? That's something you want to understand. Well, by the CPR class. Was it advertised? Yes, it was. It was.

**Speaker 3:** He did it.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** On Facebook.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** He did it. Yep. That's no different if Pete came to my house and did it out in a barn. Yeah. It's the same thing. I'm not charging. It's my house. Pete wants to do a volunteer class for CPR and he comes to my house. Go ahead.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** My question is on the taxes, though. I know you said they don't have to pay, but isn't there paperwork they have to file with the town that says they are tax exempt just because they're a 501c3 doesn't automatically give them?

**Speaker 13:** Isn't it on the deed? It's all in there.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Well, I looked at it, but I didn't see it tax exempt. That's good enough. Listers tax differently.

**Speaker 13:** Well, a 501c3 is a tax exempt. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I don't feel that if you're a 501c3 or whatever, you should be able to do things wrong. That's why I ask all the questions. Yes. If the church was still there, they would have to do certain things. Correct. So if they do other things that they need a permit for, they need to make sure they get a permit. So far, what I've seen, at least, is they don't need a permit. And if there's someone that thinks they may do, don't you think they do, and you could convince me, I'd be all for it.

**Speaker 38:** Well, if there's not something that says we need to permit, fine.

**Speaker 5:** Right. And I would point out, I hear everybody saying, oh, they're doing it the right way, they're doing it the right way, then fine. I just want to say this by myself, and for the other people, hold on a second, please, that they're doing things the right way. Now, if they are, fine.

**Speaker 37:** But I see this expressing, I was expressing to somebody earlier, I have questions.

**Speaker 2:** Mm-hmm. This is somebody that's all ready to spend $50,000 to put a septic system in a church. I'm sure she's not afraid to spend a couple hundred dollars on a permit, if necessary.

**Speaker 14:** One thing, yeah, just to point out, because the church is sending sewage into the river. Right. Okay, so you want to talk about people doing things the right way. Right. She's putting in a septic system.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** When this all went down, I was on the church committee, and I was on this committee, or on this board. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. I went down because I went down. You were there. And I helped clean the church out. If anybody wants St. Bosco's posters, I got a bunch of them. But I had everything that was in that church. Everything. The pews and everything. Is that my house? I got about four pews left. Nice. The problem with the pews are I left them outside, so you need to restate them. But I gave away, I don't know, a dozen of them. Nice. So, and they were happy. and I took them three pews at a time up to my house. But anyway, that's beside the point. What I'm saying is I had a long conversation with Stephanie and just like John's saying this, she is willing to open things up because we were actually on the same page. What the town wanted to do and what she wants to do is community, you know, help community efforts, events, you know, things that the community can go to. So we were both on the same page. The town wanted to do it, but we still had the money, okay? So I think what she's doing is great, right? I'm all for what she's doing. And I've talked to her and I've gone over to the farm. I haven't been in the building over there, but I went over to the farm and I actually had some poop. And you know, I'll take any of the poop, but nevertheless, I agree with all of that and then I agree with Doug that if we make sure we're doing it the right way, that's what we hire Doug for, is to make sure that things are getting done the right way.

**Speaker 31:** She and I talk very frequently.

**Speaker 13:** Now, one thing that I would, when the planning commission starts to go through the bylaws, Jim and I talked about this too, it would be a very smart thing to have something in the bylaws or a permit for kind of migratory food trucks. You know, somebody that might want to- Ding dong cart. A ding dong cart. That would be important. So we know, we sanctioned that they're in town.

**Speaker 15:** So that can't be a bylaw.

**Speaker 13:** It can't be a bylaw.

**Speaker 31:** Yeah.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** It would be- And again, I don't want to start the ice cream wars all over again. Would the ice cream trailer, I wouldn't call it a truck because it's not mobile. Right. It doesn't go anywhere. It doesn't have a motor to start up, but it's kind of, yeah, I guess, I mean, I could put anything on wheels, I guess, you know, but I'm just saying is, when he went through all the crap down at the other property when it first started, he went through a bunch of crap and now he's moved it different places. Does he have to go through crap again?

**Speaker 13:** No. No, because it's state permitted at this point. So why did he have to go through it the first time? He didn't. All right.

**Speaker 39:** That was the whole thing. Just like the sign.

**Speaker 15:** Yeah. Okay. So what we're here for- I'm sorry.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Go ahead. So it's a funny, because I looked, I questioned Deb too about change of use because it's always been that way. She said, no, we don't need it. So I looked through the zoning bylaws carefully. There's nothing in there that says change of use.

**Speaker 40:** There isn't.

**Speaker 19:** There isn't, no, there's nothing in there.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Oh, wow. Absolutely nothing. It was always, it was always- So he's done that way.

**Speaker 24:** I know.

**Speaker 15:** Where change of use comes in under state law is that say, dog, you got your house and oh, now you want to start a business, but you can't just do it in one side of your house. You need to change your house and change that whole structure of mine. I want to put a machine shop in this house. Right, that's a change of use. She bought that place, she didn't change the use. She bought a building. There's no use change. The church was gone, it was sold. Not there no more, it's a building. So she bought a building, there's no change of use.

**Speaker 13:** I mean, when the church came, wasn't that prior to at a store? Am I right?

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** That was in the 40s, I don't think we had bylaws then. We were gone in April. I guess somewhere-

**Speaker 5:** Or something else. No, this is just to finish it for myself here. I had that question, and if I have a question, you're gonna ask it. And if anybody wants to say or accuse me of being retroactive or whatever, fine. I've got as much right to ask a question as I agree. I never said- And then the other thing I see here, I mean, the fact that we don't have an ordinance for a change of use, I understand it. A bylaw? Well, you don't have the bylaw, so that ends it right there. I do see a change of use there. I was not aware they were paying taxes. And I think this was a question that had to get answered that a lot of people may not realize. I didn't realize it myself. Because one of the biggest things I heard when I ran, the taxes in this town. But I just wanna make sure that the burden is shared as much as it can. Mm-hmm. And I think we went to a lot of other places, and I think- And I think we went to a lot of other discussion here that didn't need to be. But like I said, this was something that concerned me. People can read, people can read any of my actions or statements, whatever they want.

**Speaker 13:** No, no, Doug, I don't think that was, I don't think that was, I think the way I interpreted what Kurt said is, in general, I mean, we've got people talking all over the place. Not you, not you, Doug. People around town are just pushing against, pushing against anything-

**Speaker 19:** I bet you could pull the gun right now, and the same people that were against that sign-up problem are the same people that are against the church right now.

**Speaker 5:** Because they don't understand. Let's ask the questions- And I appreciate that. Instead of saying you're a bunch of troublemakers. And that I- I have to, it's a sweat, and I feel, I have to represent both sides. Yes, you do. This person has accused of the inflammatory letters. I may totally disagree with him, but I'd also have to support him and bring forth whatever he said. Same with anybody else. Like I said, this had nothing to do with him. I'm using it as an example. I understand. I have to represent everybody. Whether I like them, whether I don't like them, whether I disagree with them. And I wanted that to come out, and now I'm satisfied that they are paying taxes. That, and also that answered the question about the use.

**Speaker 2:** There are longtime residents of this town that have lived here for years that don't pay taxes.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Well, one thing about the tax-

**Speaker 38:** What does that have to do with it?

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** It's not right. If somebody's not paying taxes, it doesn't matter, right? One thing about the question about taxes, it's public knowledge if someone's paying taxes. You can come right down, and you can come say, we got a report that says that people aren't paying taxes, and we saw who it was.

You can find out who's paying taxes, and you just come down and ask them. I can say, hey, is Jim paying taxes? Yup, he's paying taxes. In the back seat. Yup, yup.

**Speaker 2:** Now, who's not paying taxes? They just get it every year, that big guess is part of the whole book.

**Speaker 5:** What did this say here? It kept mentioning about the tax-exempt status of the 501. So what is somebody gonna think if they-

**Speaker 38:** Oh, sure, yeah, because that 501 number

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** keeps getting thrown around. The separation between town taxes- Paying income taxes and property taxes,

**Speaker 2:** that's what you gotta understand. Even though they don't, they want to support the community.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Now, isn't the fire department 501s? I don't remember that.

**Speaker 29:** Yes.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** So they are, and we have to vote at town meeting every five years to exempt them from taxes, otherwise we're gonna charge you.

**Speaker 7:** What type of a non-profit organization is it? What's it registered as? That's what I'm, I believe it's a- What's your- It's a college-

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** In the deed, it said-

**Speaker 5:** It's a corporation, right? It's a non-profit corporation. It's a corporation. Yeah, it's a corporation. So is it mine? We don't even know what it is.

We're talking about it, we don't even know what it is. But it's a private. I knew what I was gonna say. I knew what I was gonna say. A law. A law. It's registered. It's registered. It's registered.

**Speaker 5:** It's registered. It's under a corporation, UNC Foundation, which is located in Sacramento, California. I was in- The person that sort of like found the problem is somebody named Dr. Y. King-Loo. I was very- And it is registered in California, and- Yeah. And Vermont. What does N-T-E-E-

**Speaker 33:** Huh? What does N-T-E-E-Tax code? What's it for? What's-

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** N-E-T-T?

**Speaker 33:** Right, it has to have a non-profit,

it has to have an IRS classification code. Admissions and programs. Right.

**Speaker 5:** Oh, E-I-N?

**Speaker 41:** E-I-N.

**Speaker 5:** It's one for the future, E-I-N.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** That's your employer. That just identifies the organization. Thank you.

You can add them to service to the college, so. And I can- Oh, yeah. Thank you. No, I didn't even know that. I'll just say that it's a neuroscience- I think you have a great, that's what I'm saying. I will, I'll be in, but I don't know what it is. I'm going to be just three or more. I'll always be in my hands, and I don't think for a minute. Yeah, we can. I have, it's totally urgent. Yeah, it is. I have heard. It's totally urgent. I just need to get a ratio. I just need to get a ratio. I just need to get a ratio. I think we've got to get a ratio. Are we done? Are we done with this subject now?

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Are we done?

**Speaker 7:** Oh. I can't use the camera. I can't use the camera. The next question is all. Are we done with the subject?

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I think we're finished. I'll start with no question and then we'll move on to break things. Did it break? Okay. No. I think that was old business or was it new business?

**Speaker 13:** That was old business. We're done with old business. Just the one.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** New business. Oh, I don't know if I should even bring it up. Go ahead. It's the churches. It's the churches.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** It's the churches.

**Speaker 30:** It's the churches.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** It's the churches.

**Speaker 11:** It's the churches.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Oh, I don't know if I should even bring it up. Go ahead. It's the church address. You bring it up and I bring it up. All right, listen. We asked a while back, a couple weeks ago, to have all boards meet. To have these boards in our town to answer back. We appoint these people. We appoint the plan board. We appoint the zoning board. We appoint a lot of these people. And we don't know what's going on unless we go to meetings, which is hard to do. It's like coming to these meetings all the time. You don't come to all these meetings. I don't go to your board all the time. It's hard. It's volunteer. That being said, it's volunteer. That's awesome. I'd love to see you for a hat and a ring. But we ask this, and it never gets done. It never happens. And I've asked this many times after the school, and we can't force anybody.

But we're asking the board to at least see chairs. We're asking the chair of each board to come and talk at, you know, all boards' meetings.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Say, hey, here's what we hear. Because we do hear things. That's exactly what Doug said. You've got an email that comes in from one person. And the email comes in, you know, saying one thing and saying another thing that has no facts, no bearing about whether or not we call each other names. It's ridiculous. Right? So we can't make a decision. We can't make a decision of who's right or wrong. That's why we have executive sessions. We have to bring people in if there's a problem. But I want to see us have an all-board meeting and at least have the chairs come and talk and see how things are. Okay? That first thing. There is, just like Doug said, there's certain town residents complaining on one side of an issue. And there's also other town residents complaining on the other side. So this is, it's not a secret what's going on. There's this animosity in this town. I got big words once in a while. I'm impressed. Yeah, well, I looked it up before. No, I didn't stop it. But when we hear this stuff, and you're right, when we hear this crap and other town people hear this, then it gets down in the other town and they hear it. It's embarrassing. It's embarrassing. It's embarrassing. It's ridiculous. Look, you hear what's going on up in Stamford. We've got to stop this. So if we had these board meetings, I wouldn't tell anybody what to do, but I'd like to ask them, can you be a little bit more professional? It gets to the point where exactly I've watched the board meetings, the planning board meetings, and I've seen the chaos. And I don't like it. If I was running it, I wouldn't like it. So I can, I don't know who's the chair. You're the chair?

**Speaker 7:** I was planning commissioner.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** You know, it would bother me if people were just going crazy. I've seen this board go a little nuts sometimes and get out of hand, and Nancy puts us back where we belong. We put some policies and procedures in place. There is a lot of emotions. I get it, I think Nancy was there. So I would hope that we can at least have this.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I will.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I'll get out of this. Try it, at least, okay? Second thing is, I want to, this has just been a board meeting. If there is an issue of an appointed person, no matter who it is, it's constant, all the time. They're coming in drunk, or they're yelling and screaming, or they're threatening, or they're starting crap. And I'm not talking about having an opinion or being able to ask questions. I'm talking about being overboard. And we see it. I mean, Jen videoed it.

You see it. Okay.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** We need, as a board, to bring these other board members in that we appointed, we appointed them, and talk to them, and tell them, this needs to stop. And it doesn't stop. Just like the President of the United States gets his own cabinet, and says, sorry, we no longer need you, and we're going to bring someone else in. And I know that sounds awful, and it does, because this is a small town, we shouldn't have to do that. People volunteer in this town, and we should be proud that they are. But when I hear this stuff going on, and I'm not taking sides, but if someone says that Jim's causing trouble, the only way I can find out is go ask Jim. Not what's said on the streets. I got to go ask Jim. So that's what we need to start doing as a board, is we need to start tightening this up. Because it is. It's an embarrassment. You know, and Pete, I don't know how you run it sometimes, because that's ludicrous.

**Speaker 7:** Well, I've only, I think we've only had, that I've been there. Well, I think we've only had, that I've been there. Well, I think we've only had, that I've been there. Maybe four meetings, three meetings. But I think there was the open town meeting for part of the bylaw that got blown way out of proportion, and it was something that should have never happened. It was kind of one of those things where I just let that go, because it needed to be seen, what was going to happen. But moving forward, what we did was we put in some things. One of the actual meetings that we will hold tight and won't allow. I think we got, you know, between me and Jim, I mean, I wasn't here last meeting because I was out of town, but I heard it was fine. And I think moving forward, we're in a good place. I don't, everybody knows that I don't usually like to go off topic too much. We're there for a reason. In, out, you know, drag it on any more than we have to. And I think that's the best case scenario. And that's what should happen pretty much on every board. So I think everything, you know, the first couple meetings were a little tough. But I think we're going in the right direction.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** So why would you volunteer for something that's not going to move forward and get something done?

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** It's all about doing things right for the people of town and kind of putting the... Another point of reference I'm just saying is, I hear, you know, you were saying something about there's rumors of stuff going on. Did you hear about the militia up in the woods? Yeah. Remember that? Oh, yeah. I don't know. You know when the last time I've been in my camp? Probably, oh, well, back in November when I went deer hunting. That's it. Did you hear about that militia up there? Because they actually, they actually had this all over, all over New England. Really? That there's this militia. I've had email people send me and say, you're being watched by the FBI. Emails from people in this town that I'm watching. Because that's how rumors get started. Mm-hmm.

**Speaker 30:** Come on home.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Don't sign a bumper sticker.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Okay.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** It's not a bumper sticker. It says Risky Ranch Militia. I know. Right? But it's a four-wheeler group.

**Speaker 27:** I know. Is there any chance? Here's the way to do it. Ask the horse. You'll get the answers. I will tell you guys this word right here. Wait. Guys. The planning commission. I do believe, I do believe that you've got some really good quality people that I work with.

**Speaker 15:** I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. And I worked with on the planning commission. That's for sure. That's for sure. Not you. No, I mean, and I will lament Deb for doing her due diligence on the AO side of it. And her and I worked together. It was a treat. But it's just a non-stop, non-stop just having to prove to somebody that, that's not the way it is. I don't believe it does. So. Anyways. So. Back to the Aldrich. Yes. So the Aldrich is a little bit of a landowner. Yeah. They're not playing with the triste. So it's not a landowner. Well, and so it was like how the Aldrich is in the past. Now, you know. I think that. Some of these things are just that. I.

**Speaker 42:** so anyways so back to the all boards i should set something up there and try to do that

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** i talked to the school board chair and yes they want to meet with us and we should pick some dates and i will get back to her and see what works for them so what dates i'm thinking june my time okay what nights do you care not tuesday nights not monday nights not thursday nights

probably the first one second second monday where is that second monday so

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** well this this is for the school board and the so like oh yeah they were meeting on tuesday i don't know when they're meeting now this

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** this time it was a thursday you can either do it every other thursday and do that or you can do whatever their meetings are you've been having them on different nights i know they're just

**Speaker 19:** trying to get a budget through but i don't know what they're going to sell on i think they were

**Speaker 40:** tuesdays so we don't care

**Speaker 19:** what night then no all right no fridays yeah no friday okay it's not at six o'clock on a friday

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** so all boards meeting sometime in june too and that would be all our boards any board

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** the word did the select no just any board at the select board has appointed so if they're voted on there's nothing we can say they're voted on you know i mean justice and the peace they're voted on we can't talk about it but if we appoint someone planning commission zoning commission conservation commission we appoint these people there are people we should be talking to but

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** justice of the peace they should come anyway to the all board keep the peace keep the peace and to hear about open meeting law and what's new and sure that's fine if you want to send the

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** invitations

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** cemetery i know they're elected libraries elected but they should come we're not making any decisions

**Speaker 43:** all we're doing is getting information right you know bob or sheila should show up for emergency

**Speaker 3:** management yeah and bob or i should show up for yeah just to give me fiber all we want this isn't

like a meeting to make any decisions ruby is holding on or anything like that it's just an

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** informational meeting to say hey how's how's things going what's going on you know where can we move

**Speaker 11:** and that can go from there well what was the open meeting law you know just recently the

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** conservation commission i didn't even know existing and then all of a sudden people joined and didn't and then resigned i'm like geez that's more action i see in 10 years with that

**Speaker 19:** you know i might fall i encourage it's revival well most of the things are

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** the other half has been approved

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** But even distributing to our board, our all boards appointed and elected, they should know the conflict of interest. They're bound by that too. Library, cemetery. Okay. I won't do that. Any other new business?

**Speaker 1:** Lori. The state of Vermont is completely changing their entire software for voting in election. So Casey and I attended our first mandatory four-hour election training the other day. There won't be many more to come.

**Speaker 15:** You can vote from home now. Just kidding.

**Speaker 42:** No, I did mention to Lori.

**Speaker 11:** I did mention to Lori.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Just kidding. Sorry, too bad.

**Speaker 30:** Just kidding.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Her and Casey have to attend these mandatory online. We used to have to go someplace. So if we did, we would close the office. I said, Lori, if you have to attend these mandatory training, close the office, put a sign up, training in session. She can't be interrupted and miss this stuff because it's mandatory.

**Speaker 1:** I have to sign up for the ARPA training three times because I missed the first two. Yeah. I can't see many things going on.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Otherwise, before these webinars and computer trainings, you had to go. The office was closed. We'd go. Close it, do it. Yeah. Any other new business? What's the new election stuff?

**Speaker 1:** I think the software is just going to be much more powerful and easier to use from what I see. It won't be so cumbersome. For the checklist and all that? For the checklist. Yeah. We're going to be working with other towns in Vermont so that we will have access to voters, not just in Stamford, but in transferring when people move from one town to the next. Yeah. So ultimately, it will be good. It's just another learning curve. Cool. Yep. Any other new business?

**Speaker 15:** If I can go ahead and answer. If we, if any commission is coming up, we're going to have our first session on solar. We're going to have our first session on solar array that we are, we're just working on it. We're in talks with a designer right now. We've actually secured land if we need it. And we're talking about doing a large solar array for the entire town.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Is this a public one or? Yes.

**Speaker 15:** How does that work? So at some point, we're going to come to the board and have a discussion. And how, when I'm, when I'm trying to do this, it hasn't been done in Vermont yet, but there's some laws that have been changed in the last couple of years that may or may not allow us to do this. They believe it will, we will be able to do this. But we purchase or we own this field or this array. And we get all the benefits from it. And our community gets all the benefits from it. That's where we're shooting for it. How it's going to work, I don't know yet, but it's pretty exciting how things are looking so far.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** So is this in the planning commission bylaws or probably not because it's electric? Is it allowed in the planning, in our zoning bylaws or?

**Speaker 13:** We have a section for solar and telecommunication.

**Speaker 39:** I don't know where you're getting it.

**Speaker 15:** I don't know where you're getting it. I don't think it's there with the bylaws. No.

**Speaker 17:** Is it allowed?

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** It's a public utility.

**Speaker 42:** It's a public utility.

**Speaker 17:** Yeah, so I don't think you have to abide by any of our zoning bylaws.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** No, it's outside of them. Okay. Oh, it's, oh, I know what you're saying.

**Speaker 44:** Yeah.

**Speaker 13:** So, no, it's actually in our town, our town plan. The town plan, yeah.

**Speaker 15:** You know, so. But the only thing that we could do is say we don't want it here or on the school property. And I don't know where you're going to put it. I don't know where you're going to put it. I don't know where you're going to put it. I don't know where you're going to put it. I don't know where you're going to put it.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** But is there any. He said we would purchase a piece of land.

**Speaker 17:** Yeah, yeah.

**Speaker 15:** No, no, no.

**Speaker 17:** We would purchase the.

**Speaker 15:** We're not going to. So far, the way it is right now, the piece of property that I have would be a lease. So we would lease it. Okay. The. Oh, okay. The group. Okay. Us would lease it. Right?

**Speaker 17:** And so, and then, and all the benefits from it comes to the town.

**Speaker 15:** How it gets distributed from there is beyond me at this point. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So $2500. Oh yeah. And so even the lease is cost. Now, my mistake. I neon and the rent, the lease. The. Well, no, but it does cost. Okay. But you would work your way back. Okay. So to rent, you would deal, you could help go to a05. Okay. Okay. Okay. So that. You know, it's 90,000 just for the flat.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. That's what it costs. Okay. So double. Yup. where it's going to be situated is it going to be on the main highway view of everything or is it going to be up in the woods somewhere and open clear all

**Speaker 15:** that will come but yeah I mean the size of the array that we would need you're going to see it right it's not going to be on the map I can say that but and I don't want to mention names or where areas or anything right now because I can imagine what would go from that so I'm just saying we're in the beginning stages I haven't even presented well the Planning Commission knows about what I've been working on bits and pieces here and there so they'll get a little bit more next week when we have our next meeting and then we'll go from there probably back into town and then we'll have the designer the developer and everybody at work who wants to come in for a public hearing yeah well the beginning stages right but trying to figure out a way of at some point I thought when we were when I was looking into it 8, 9, 10 years ago I don't know what it was the towns can't create or have a profit or something like that I don't know it was

**Speaker 19:** I don't know how the benefits are going to go directly to the town what's that the benefit the I remember the benefits weren't going to go all the way correctly to the town everything was just going to be fed back into the community

**Speaker 15:** yeah well there's there's different ways about now there's there's different ways of doing it so I mean I wasn't happy with the outcome of this unit down here because that's servicing a town up in on Kennedy and Ward it doesn't even help us

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** well it just goes in the grid and you don't know where it's going

**Speaker 15:** but the only reason why I bring it now is because it's working kind of quickly because we just found out that the only place in the state of mind right now that doesn't have grid issues are us and I'm saying are you kidding me but the three-phase system apparently is because it goes north or south so

**Speaker 45:** there's a price for a grid tie yeah

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** it's what

**Speaker 3:** there's a possibility of a grid tie the infrastructure is already there to feed to

**Speaker 46:** down there

**Speaker 15:** no north of us all the all the ties north are tied up so they're having a hard time getting anything of any large thing they're saying right now the only place that you can get a tie is south the one side

**Speaker 46:** capacity

**Speaker 3:** yeah

**Speaker 15:** so anyway you know I'll bring it to you guys when I get a little bit more or maybe we'll have a joint meeting or something it's going to happen kind of quickly you see me it seems like so far it's a large system it's like a four mega system

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** okay anything else here executive session yes okay I make a motion to go into executive session pending or probable civil litigation or a prosecution to which the public body is or may not be a party

second all in favor aye oh