--- title: "Stamford Select Board — February 20, 2025" date: 2025-02-20 session: regular speaker_labels: 1 cluster(s) named from the roll call and that meeting's chair in the minutes, 1 named from roster attendance, 8 of 10 clusters unnamed voice_ids: {"SPEAKER_00":25,"SPEAKER_01":2,"SPEAKER_02":1,"SPEAKER_03":6,"SPEAKER_04":14,"SPEAKER_05":12,"SPEAKER_06":4,"SPEAKER_07":3,"SPEAKER_08":10,"SPEAKER_09":13} duration_min: 75 audio: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVVVyQynvLE audio_source: YouTube (@jgramlin78) minutes: https://townofstamfordvermont.org/mediaItems/Sbd%20Minutes%202-20-25.pdf minutes_pending: false present: [Nancy L. Bushika, Douglas Wright, Michael G. Denault, John Dunn, Kurt Gamari] absent: [] transcribed: 2026-10-12 (faster-whisper large-v3, CUDA; names corrected per data/name_fixes.json) diarization: pyannote/speaker-diarization-3.1 (automated; cluster labels may over-split a single voice; unattributed paragraphs have no reliable speaker) --- # Stamford Select Board — February 20, 2025 **Session:** Regular · **Duration:** 75 min · [Audio](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVVVyQynvLE) · [Minutes](https://townofstamfordvermont.org/mediaItems/Sbd%20Minutes%202-20-25.pdf) **Present:** Nancy L. Bushika, Douglas Wright, Michael G. Denault, John Dunn, Kurt Gamari --- **Speaker 1:** I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Welcome to a meeting of the standard select board. If you have a matter to discuss that is not included on the agenda, you can do so by addressing the chairperson and stating their name and address. You will notice that all our meetings are recorded, and this is to aid with the summarization of the minutes. Visitors are welcome, and we allow five minutes of comments per visitor and 15 minutes per topic. Discussions will be held in a calm and civilized manner, and respectful of others. Select board members present are? Clark and Hall. Nancy Bushika. **Speaker 2:** Claude Roy. John Dunn. Kirk and I. Will there be any adding of items or variants of items from tonight's agenda? No. I have finance reimbursement papers that I would like to request for a few months. Finance reimbursement? Grant reimbursement. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I'd like to add an executive session for personnel. Will there be any adjustments to the agenda, such as changing order of items? And our meeting is being recorded tonight by J.B. and his YouTube. Hearing the visitors. **Speaker 3:** I have a letter here that I put in everybody's box. I don't know if you saw it. From the Conservation Commission. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I guess I didn't get it. **Speaker 4:** I've seen it. I've just seen it. I've got it in the trash. Okay. **Speaker 5:** I didn't get one. **Speaker 3:** Okay. And Lori, do you email it to everybody? No. No. **Speaker 6:** No, but if you have it, I can make copies for the order. Yeah. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I'm trying to see. Yep. All right. I thought I hit it in the box. **Speaker 4:** I'm sorry. I got it somewhere. **Speaker 3:** It's just a letter to the BCRC that the Conservation Commission wrote just talking about how unhappy we are with the mention, the direct mention of Stamford being prime location for wind and the change to half a kilometer distance from residences from the kilometer that it is in our energy plan. The Planning Commission also voted to sign on to this letter, and we're hoping that that's like more also. So as a unified front, we could then submit to BCRC. Just to have it in writing, I know that the regional plan already went through, but so we have our two cents in. So our energy program doesn't have that in it, correct? Yes. We have one kilometer, correct? Correct. And we have winded, prime winded in a different location. Correct. They're saying up there. So that's not the location. Right. They're saying that it's the brain. Yeah. It specifically says though that it's the brain, right? **Speaker 7:** Yeah. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** So when did the... When did the Conservation Commission meet? **Speaker 3:** We've been working on the letter like the last few months. So a couple months ago, we said, okay, you went in the last Planning Commission. They all agreed to sign on to it as well. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Can we... Would this have to be on like separate letter, how do you feel, like from the Board of Selection and Conservation Commission was separate and Planning Commission separate? **Speaker 8:** If you want separate letters from each board, yeah. **Speaker 6:** Give them a lot of paperwork. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** It's up to you. Either way. Yeah, I wasn't strong. I'm in support. I like this letter. Yeah. I'll make a motion that we either sign this or send it our own. What do you think? **Speaker 9:** What's the suggestion that... **Speaker 3:** We had considered that just one letter we thought was easier, but it's up to you. **Speaker 10:** We can just sign on to this. **Speaker 11:** We can just write a letter for all of us to sign saying we endorse this and attach it. Sure. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** That'd be fine. Yeah, I don't have a problem with it. I do. To me, it's a no-brainer. Our townspeople do not want this. **Speaker 3:** And then we officially have it in writing. Yeah. **Speaker 6:** Do you want me to just take this letter and put it on letterhead and put Stamford Conservation, Stamford Slideboard, Stamford Planning, and everybody can sign? That's all. Each chair can sign. Just the chairs? Yeah. **Speaker 4:** I'd like to do that. Okay. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Thank you. **Speaker 12:** Good job. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Make a motion to send this letter. **Speaker 4:** I'd like to see if the Conservation Commission is being affected. We've got a motion, and I'll make a motion. Second. Second. Second. **Speaker 3:** The ash boards, we're just... All in favor? **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Aye. Do you want to email it to me? Do you want to email it to me? Any other visitors? **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Reading and approval of records and orders. Regular minutes of February 6th. Do I have a motion to accept them as written? **Speaker 4:** Motion. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. I have a little road condition. I'm sure... Dave is somewhere else. Did he say he was not coming tonight? I didn't talk to him. **Speaker 6:** No. At his first night off, I didn't know how many... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** But I was saying, before the meeting, I saw him in his own yard when the truck broke down with the front loader, so I'm sure they're not having a wonderful week right now. Oh, dear. **Speaker 6:** Yeah. He's had a good day. I'm so happy tonight. **Speaker 13:** Yeah. **Speaker 4:** Nickel and dime, but all the stars. **Speaker 1:** Yeah. Yeah. I hate to ask a question, but it prompted me to ask, because I can't even... I came here yesterday, and of course, I had my days mixed up, and the office was closed. I'm assuming that it was our loader that was pushing all the snow back on Main Road? It was not. What was the state? **Speaker 14:** All right. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** That's a no. **Speaker 1:** All right. Because I've got to have a conversation. It just was like where my septic sits and my leach field is. They pushed snow right there, and that... I'm not saying it did anything. I don't think it did. Right. But, man, that's... That was a... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was nerve-wracking. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** It went double time. **Speaker 1:** Yeah. Which I'm good for it, but I just... Sure. You know, where my... Where they ended up pushing snow was right where my leach field is, and I'm like... **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** It looks like they did more personal property than just the intersections. Oh, yeah. It was just intersections, but down here, everybody's got a place right now. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** They did more than the... They did more than normal. Yeah. Even up by me, they did a guy's driveway. There's nobody living there. They actually did a... **Speaker 1:** I mean, they even pushed down, which I'm shocked, in between both of my properties. They own right there, because there's actually a drain that runs from there back to the river, but they even drove the thing right down in there on top of that, and I was like... Either way, I just wanted to make sure. I thought it was... **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** They probably don't even know it. **Speaker 4:** I've questioned in the past, when's the last time the DOTs even come through here and cleaned out, like, their roadside callers? It's about a long time. Yeah. Well, they cleaned out from... Buried under the ground. **Speaker 1:** Yeah, they cleaned out from the old popping house this past summer. **Speaker 15:** They did that one there. **Speaker 4:** They started it after two summers ago when all the flooding broke in the village. I mean, a lot of those things were... I think it was one here at one time. Where did it go, right? It's under the ground. **Speaker 1:** Yeah, I just wanted to make sure. I just wanted to clarify, because I want to talk to Bolte, Travis, and just kind of pass on that, you know, be wary of where people... People's septics are. Yeah. So, thanks. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I have nothing else under road conditions. **Speaker 16:** Anything you have, Lori? **Speaker 6:** Well, the grant and aid update I sent you, the lengthy chain of emails back and forth. Yeah. It looks like when Jim Henderson is feeling better, he'll submit at least a bill that encompasses the time that was done before the grant period ended. A... They're talking about, like, leaving the cost of the rest of their bills so that the town won't be off the money. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** It's nice to see that Jim's gone back for us. Yes. It's very, very nice. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** It really opened a whole can of worms for that. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** You know, Calvin, we appreciate that. Thank you very much for, you know, standing up strongly there. **Speaker 6:** Yeah. And I did write to the state to see if there was any deadline, because I haven't been... Yeah, we missed the deadline of submission, and then we don't get any reimbursement. But you just have to send it in as soon as you get it in time. Get it what? As soon as we get the new paperwork from BCRC. Oh, we can. We'll send it in. Okay. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** That's under road or recycling. Review mowing bid request. John, you wanted to see something else on the mowing bid? **Speaker 2:** Just the shrubs in front of the window, which, where I'm at the school, if I... It's like a first-grade classroom. If you look at the building, it's the right-hand side of the building. Those shrubs are, like, enormous. You can't even see through the windows. From the outside, I can't imagine the kids or anybody can see through the out and out. Either trim them or remove, do something with it, just to make it more eye-opening. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Should we check through the school? Do you think maybe they want them there for safety? I don't know. **Speaker 2:** Oh, no. I'm not sure. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I don't know either. **Speaker 4:** I think they're... Are they junipers? I'm not sure. **Speaker 3:** What's that? **Speaker 4:** It's a wear-along-sleeve shirt. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You get a rash. I think they're junipers. Sorry about that. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** So, do you want me to check with the school and see if there's any problem with cutting them? How about removing them completely, right? **Speaker 2:** Yeah, one or the other. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Remove? **Speaker 4:** I said they used to be out here, you know? **Speaker 2:** But it says on here, shrubs in front of buildings are part of the... Right. So, either he's neglecting them or they just need severe maintenance. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I think that's the trimming. All areas that cannot be mowed with a line machine will be trimmed every second mowing. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** That also says shrubbing in front of buildings. That's not grass. That's shrubs. Those are the shrubs. Yeah, they're trees. They're trees. It would be very easy to just, you know, see what the school thinks. And then it's, personally, it's nice, polite to ask the school, but in the long run, we're having this guy pay. We're paying that. Yeah, we're maintaining it. We are maintaining it. I think it's better for the building if we at least trim them down. **Speaker 2:** If you remove them, it's less maintenance. So, then you want to pay somebody to have it maintained. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** How do you feel about the two shrubs that are outside of Casey's window there? They got stormed a couple of years ago. You can't see the sign. Trim or remove. Whatever the school says about those will. **Speaker 6:** So. **Speaker 4:** Does it have any policy when they inspect the building and shrubs touch in the building? I know there's such policies in Lake Housing. **Speaker 17:** I know. **Speaker 4:** I mean, you don't lose all for the deterioration of the building. **Speaker 17:** I just wanted to shrub the shoe in front of the windows. Is it possible? It could be a fire safety hazard if the kids needed to get out through a window and they couldn't with the bushings there. Just something to put up for thought. Yeah. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I would kind of run it by the principal. **Speaker 17:** Yeah. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** But, you know, in the long run, we probably should do something with them. **Speaker 17:** Okay. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** And the same thing when he's out here. And if it costs a fortune, you know, we can volunteer and cut them down. It's not a big deal to cut. **Speaker 11:** Right. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Cut the tree down. I can take a walk around. Huh? **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I can take a walk. That's what I mean. You know, I don't want to make this be long tonight. But when people say, well, do you have insurance? I didn't have insurance putting a Christmas tree up, guys, for the last six years. So don't worry about insurance. I'm not getting paid. I'll just come down and cut it. Okay. But, yeah, if it needs to be done, things like that. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Things will get done. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Yeah, it's not that bad. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Wait, let me try this. I'm sorry. Let me see. **Speaker 18:** So we're just going to set these bids out to. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Yes, and is there anything else in the mowing bid that needs to be changed? Keep it like last year? **Speaker 4:** Will we get one bid last year? **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Yes. Well, I don't know. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Well, this is my question. I guess I'm going to bring it up over a meeting so it's transparent. John, are you interested in doing it? **Speaker 2:** I would do it, but the other person that mows it does it so cheaply. Okay. I don't know if CB will do it cheaper than what he does. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Well, the reason why I'm asking is, you know, we're coming right into the ethics topic in a minute here. So I recuse myself when Dan does it. He's my cousin. Okay. Now, John, we sent out a bid to John. We're all on this board. I would say, this is after reading the ethics rules today, it's not a conflict of interest because we're all on the same page. Right. Right. He would have to recuse himself. He would have to. Yeah. **Speaker 2:** I mean, I'm all in for making money and supporting myself, but at the same time, I'm here looking out for the best interest of the town. Right. And I don't foresee charging the town more than what he could do. I think he could use the whole property for like $175, which is insanely cheap and it's a good deal. As long as he keeps giving me a price like that, I don't do it. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Well, I guess my question would be is, do you want us to send you out the bid? You can put a number in or not put a number in. **Speaker 2:** I mean, I'll put a number in, but I don't foresee you waiting on it based on the other person that currently does it. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** And it may be good to have a second bid, John, because then people would say, hey, this guy's doing a really good job, you know, for these numbers, you know. **Speaker 2:** At the same time, though, with his insurance, what was it, his workman's comp, you have to make sure he's coming. Yeah, right. **Speaker 19:** And following the rules. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Yeah. You have to talk to him and tell him, look, you can't have the workers unless you have the insurance. Right. You can't say, well, I'm doing it myself. Well, I know what he looks like. It says on him. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** So we're going to mail the bids to Sheila and Stan Lawrence, yard work by Dan, John Dunn, James McPherson. Do you know anybody else? That's who we did last year. **Speaker 2:** Send one to Josh Fields. **Speaker 4:** Yeah. We've tried a lot. Josh Fields. Josh Fields. Yeah. Josh Fields last year. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** A lot of, most people don't respond. Yeah. **Speaker 1:** Josh. 858 Current Highway. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** What's that? 858 Current Highway. Wait a minute. Wait, what? pediatric lung there. Wait a minute. **Speaker 1:** Pete, what? 858 Current Highway. Thank you. He rents from me. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Oh. Off the top of your head? **Speaker 1:** All right. So I'll just, yeah, as long as you go. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Those are your cameras back there? All of them. So you've seen them. Oh, yeah. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I don't think they did, because they did it late. They are trimming along there. **Speaker 4:** Why is that ditch there? **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Because there's a culvert there. **Speaker 4:** Wouldn't that be for the highway system that I've been talking about, where they never clean out any of these ditches at all? **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** How far back are they going to clean down there? **Speaker 4:** If it's a ditch they installed, it's their ditch. **Speaker 20:** All the way down to the highway? **Speaker 4:** Sure. Why not? **Speaker 20:** If it's part of a reasonable thing, it's their ditch. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I don't think it's their responsibility. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** The river goes down to clean that out last year. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I don't think they did. **Speaker 4:** It's just so cool for thought, because these culverts are not working in the center of town along the highway system. They haven't worked for a long time. Clean ditch. Well, wait a minute. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** When I don't think it's official, the mower clean up is a cloud damage standard. Pick up and remove branches and vegetation debris prior to first mowing. We can add... **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** It says along ditch, right? **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** It says trim the ditch. Along the ditch, not the out the ditch. So on number one, do we want to ask them to clean out the ditch? **Speaker 4:** I would just probably remove debris there. Remove debris from ditch and weed bucket once a year, maybe. If he does. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** The branch is injured. **Speaker 21:** Once in the spring, once in the fall. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Remove, two, three. **Speaker 4:** Can't you have the kids do it? I don't know how entrenched it is. They would have in the fifties. It's 50 feet filled in. You're a field trap. Where are we going? Over to that ditch. I mean, the culvert in my area that comes from the highway is literally just three quarters of a mile. I dug out and it just flooded my well, which was flooded my basement. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Well, that's the thing. You won't dig them out and then they'll say, hey, you got wetlands on your front lawn. You can't do it. That's the bad thing to ditch out. Exactly. Well, you can go do it. Hey, you got a permit for that? Yeah. Yeah. **Speaker 8:** So, um, it's January. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Probably this could be at the bottom of the pile and maybe send the bids out in, in, uh, probably March. The moment in June. Mid-March. Hopefully, uh, by May we start seeing some flowers out there, yeah. Yeah. **Speaker 6:** Hopefully that's about right. Probably one big rainstorm. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** When the snow goes and... **Speaker 6:** So you send in mid-March and then you can pick your dates then? **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Prepare for town meeting. Um, Sheila said she didn't get her town report yet. **Speaker 2:** I don't know if they're both marked for me. I didn't get it. Are they mailed? **Speaker 22:** No. **Speaker 23:** I got these. **Speaker 6:** They went out Tuesday afternoon. **Speaker 4:** We got a direct feed on this thing. I mean, you can look at it. Oh, no. **Speaker 6:** You got two? Yeah. **Speaker 24:** Yeah, I was curious. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I don't know if you surprised me, I just got a return to sender for a Christmas card we sent to my brother. There's a card for him. I just got it three days ago. Return to sender. **Speaker 25:** I'm supposed to have, I get a package just about every day between my wife and my business. **Speaker 1:** Yeah. And every day almost. I get a message that says, unable to send. I don't know. That says, unable to deliver package. Yeah. And it's, and I call the post office and I'm like, um, like, what do you mean it's unable to deliver package? I'm on the main road. Right. Like my mailbox is clear. It's even more clear now. Right. And they're like, they're like, oh, they, it dropped between the seat and they didn't see it. And it's like, I hear that all the time. Like it just happened again yesterday. Yeah. And then if they redelivered, like, I just think that, that just, we're not consistent yet. I think they have good faith. Sure. You know. It's a new girl. It's a new girl. It's a new girl. It's a new girl. Yeah. I think she struggled a little bit. But she'll get there. But I got it. It wasn't too far away at least. No, I got it close. Priority mail. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I got it. Call them up and hold a ransom, you know. I got some crazy mail. I walked the road one day and I was like, oh, that's a big. The good thing is once you get this route down, there's probably not much turnover on it. Right. **Speaker 19:** It's the same name for 30 years. **Speaker 2:** Yeah. So we all sat with town meeting. The school goes first. We all sit with town meeting. **Speaker 22:** We all sit with town meeting. **Speaker 4:** We all sit with town meeting. We all sit with town meeting. We all sit with town meeting. We all sit with town meeting. We all sit with town meeting. We all sit with town meeting. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** The school goes first at 7. And theirs is mostly discussion. There's going to be no vote. And. You all just go. Okay. Okay. Lisa. **Speaker 3:** Would it be okay for the chair of the planning commission to stand up and just say that we finished the draft of the bylaw that's going to be going to the select board and off to the board? Uh, yeah. Okay. **Speaker 26:** It's a. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** It's a great idea. It's a great idea. It's a great idea. But maybe we can have it at the end of the meeting. Yeah. We can have it at the end of the meeting. Yeah. And we can have it at the end of the meeting. And can we have the copies of that for people to look at so they can come to the hearing? **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** At the end of the meetings, they always give anybody any chance to bring up any new **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** discussion. Talk to the moderator. Yeah. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Because he's all set. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I don't know if it happened earlier. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But yeah. At the end of the meeting, he'll say any and all discussion of town business, **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** you can raise your hand and just say it might be okay to do it after the school board meeting on their article eight because some people or maybe a lot of people will leave that it's the same **Speaker 26:** message in both meetings okay you just want people to be able to be aware of the hearing sure yeah **Speaker 4:** i think usually when the school goes first more people stick around i think so yeah for the spot yeah i mean if the select parts first most people leave nobody cares **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** it's a lot harder to understand a school than it is the top so school has these a lot of algorithms in there and it's an entity that makes up everything that is not there so you have your boards there but the entity the union is not there to answer any of the questions and that when you look at it you say okay now this year not to throw you guys under the bus but you almost went up 14 and your budget's one and a half times higher than the towns yet the people will question the columns budget that went up less than five percent more than a question of a two and a half million dollar budget at four and a half million dollars percent and there won't be any questions because i think that people don't understand i mean what's happening and you're not going to change it unless you don't vote the budget yeah **Speaker 4:** i mean historically i think the town always used to go first right we didn't do this ultimate anything until recently it's not always about first in the gym at mto yeah it's time to talk **Speaker 9:** about the money and i'm not trying to sort of steal your thoughts i'm just saying is when **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** you hear in what i call the rumor mill there the facebook rumor mill and then people talking at the dump or everything and they're saying boy you know the town spent a lot of money you're right a million dollars a lot of money but two and a half million dollars a lot more time went up five percent it's going up 14 what's higher five percent of a million or 14 percent yeah i mean it this is one-on-one basic health care is **Speaker 27:** the biggest well sure it is we have healthcare **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** in the union right we have not terrible not currently oh sure but it it but to ask questions and say okay how's this let's ask questions through all this money how are the school grades doing compared to the rest of the state or how are the school grades doing compared to the rest of the country you know what's going on and ask those questions and then when you get them and that's like i said that's something that should be in a school board meeting but school board meetings give you two minutes **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** so it's it should be answered and that i'm not again i'm sorry i'm bringing it all up but you know when it comes to town meetings i truly believe that there's more people that are concerned about the town budget than a school board budget yeah in the town budget if you pick it apart and the people that come here all the time you guys understand you know you guys get it but the people that never come to these meetings and they look at it and go well you know they gave out a raise yeah we also **Speaker 9:** bought a excavator uh you know that paid for for all these grants **Speaker 4:** everywhere i mean nationwide whether we want to have a public school system or not right one of the inceptions the whole idea behind property tax essentially was to fund public school education right right it was the fun education but it's just too far out of balance **Speaker 20:** oh i agree and like that said there's so **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** many mandates that they come down so you've got to do you got to but they don't have any decisions **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** i mean no very little so you think about that that work mandate think about that as the state's telling your town what to do if i came into your household and told you how to wash dishes you tell me go to heck get out right and that's what they're telling us and they're starting to flow into us starting to flow into the department and you're not and what laurie does you mandate the ethics uh codes this year we had an ethics code already but now there's a mandate you have to take a pass now you know and i'm not saying it's bad i'm just saying that everything's you know the reevaluations of our home over all our land it was mandated yeah we're saying that there's very little local **Speaker 28:** local control right so we're good then with town meeting we know how we're going to answer all these **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** questions that come up and sure okay whatever we i don't know if you can ever prepare i mean you go out there and you go oh i know they're going to ask this and then they ask a question like where **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** did that come from section one two three i'd find that perform better a little bit later yeah **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** okay ethics commission update oh we got a lot doug so we gave you some things to look at lots of stuff to look at well we did appoint an ethics liaison so that's done and you're registered with the state yes yeah okay and here's somebody coming **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** in yeah i'll be coming after you okay where are you going to have mandates now you have to try them all the time **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** so paperwork you sent us uh the municipal code of ethics that's all state law are you saying that we need to put this **Speaker 11:** on our website or yeah we probably should i was just i just gave that as a suggestion we take the state and use it ourselves you know just kind of stand for that's what we're going to **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** follow well this is the right out of the law this is the law out of the green book so do we want all **Speaker 11:** these laws no oh i thought i gave something else there on our website following this i took part out there that specifically again if you go into the website and you go to municipal and they have the ethics that you should have so i'm just saying just rather than sit down and deliberate just take that right out because it covers pretty much everything **Speaker 6:** right they had a state model policy and then a municipal policy so that's what i grabbed um **Speaker 29:** i think we just take the municipal policy and use that yep um and then there were two **Speaker 6:** two documents that they said the town just had to post on the website kind of as-is yeah those **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I'm okay with we have a code of a conflict of interest policy that's probably going to be overridden by the new policy but on the new policy they've got some positions in here that I don't think we need like town manager water commissioner yeah so if we look these over yes yeah and this thing that **Speaker 11:** I just passed out to you tonight I was working on it's the process for investigation and enforcement of the ethical violations and if you look there I did take up part naming the municipal officers and did defining them who should take the **Speaker 30:** pretty much comes down to just about everything yeah we don't hurt anybody to **Speaker 11:** take it it's right and what I did was go to love to use the city or the town of Middlebury and then the town of Canyon Canyon has got like something like 322 people Bill Berry's got this big fairly by the law standards big setup and I just tried to take ideas out of both of them I just tried to take ideas out of both of them because obviously the town of Canaan is going to be a lot closer to Stamford and middlebury so that's what I did and here's the procedures for the findings and the actions of the appeal will that go on yeah because that's one of the things that has to be on there is the process for investigation and enforcement of ethical violations now I put a spot here for the forms to go on I'm not sure how we would do that the thing is you've got two forms I mentioned this I think the last meeting one is one that you can fill out and send by computer right up to the state the other one you can print out fill it out by hand your typewriter or whatever you can send it or mail it up to them the only thing is if you do that they want you to call them and say it's out of the way for whatever reason I guess they just can't send it out **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** yeah got lost in the mail yeah **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** okay so this can go on how about this Vermont code of ethics identifying conflict of interest this flow sheet **Speaker 11:** I think that's more for us isn't it like to idealize a conflict or not a conflict because remember we're going on anything that is a conflict or abuse the so somebody feels there's a conflict which means there was a lot of paperwork **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** send it up get it started when the townsperson has a conflict any they fill out this paperwork is there again I'm just gonna be blunt here we've already had this happen okay if a townsperson comes to this board and ask to decide or solve a problem Can we, I guess you'd call it, nip it in the bud and say, let's just take care of it, the conflict changed or went away and the person's happy with that. You know what I mean? I don't see no reason why we can't be proactive about any of this. So, to me, the situation that we're in right now I think can be fixed very easily. Sure. Instead of drawing it out, making the person send it to the state and go through that. In the meantime, if there's a conflict of interest, the state deems it is, that time period it takes, that conflict keeps happening. So, what if we have a case come up in front of us, there's a decision made, with the conflict happening, then two months or a year later, a month later, it comes back and the state says, yes, we deem that as a conflict of interest, the party involved can come back and say, well, you made this decision this way, I want it changed now because you had a conflict of interest. If not, here's my lawyer's name. You know, and I'm not saying it's going to blow that far, but I'm just saying is, once you want to solve a problem for the town, it's clearly, I'll, **Speaker 9:** it appears, **Speaker 4:** If it appears to us as a board, it's our perception that it's a And we can change that. That's the perception, right? Right. **Speaker 11:** So why would we try to fix that then? Okay, I see what you're saying, and it would be nice if we could do it locally. But that's when you open yourself up to a lot of confusion. If you send it up, I mean, anybody can come and talk to us. That doesn't hurt. But rather than us make the decision, I think we should send it up, let them look at it. They may look at it and say, yeah, there's something here. They'll send us down what they want us to investigate. Or they'll say, yeah, there's something here, but it's not big enough to diminish, they call it. **Speaker 4:** But we could always be more stringent than... **Speaker 31:** Well, okay, listen. **Speaker 11:** Here's what we're going to get into. And this is the last thing I'm going to say about it. We can open up a can of worms. We can make this as complicated as hell. This is a process. If everybody follows it, there's all kinds of places along the way for it to stop. It may stop up there. It may come down here. And if somebody comes in and says, well, I want to withdraw it, they can notify the... **Speaker 10:** I agree. **Speaker 4:** So what if someone comes in and they want to pop by? And they come in months to appoint a position for conflicting boards? Can we make that decision right here that we perceive it as a conflict? Or do we have to send that off to them? **Speaker 11:** I think... I'm sticking with that. I'm sticking with that. I'm saying send it up. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** If it's important enough, then it should be important. I also think that if we have the ability as a board to change a process about anything, if there was no conflict, and just the board itself said, geez, you know, after meeting the state ethics law, I think that we might want to watch out for this. Why don't we have a policy put in place? I think that a board member should be able to say, okay, my policy is that we're not going to allow a select board member to sit on a plan board anymore. Sure. **Speaker 32:** And that's... **Speaker 4:** At some point... And they can be voted on. At some point, maybe it's our responsibility to protect people from themselves. **Speaker 11:** Well... **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I think we should... **Speaker 33:** Go ahead, Doug. **Speaker 11:** No, I was just going to say what I was going to say. I put this out there. Fine. But they're the experts on it. They're the ones that are getting all this done. And it can be nipped in the bud if the person sends it up. They can look at it. That's fine. If we're going to start handling it locally... **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Eventually, we'll have to handle it locally anyway. If the state says it's a violation, we have to handle it locally anyway. **Speaker 11:** We can handle it, but you're talking, I think, two different things here. They're going to say, okay, this is the information we need. **Speaker 31:** Yeah. **Speaker 11:** And that's when we handle it locally. But there's such a small window now for an investigation. **Speaker 4:** With the whole new... It's a perception. That's almost... So do you feel that... One person perceives it, and that's the perception. I feel we ought to stick to the state policy. Do you feel that if the state comes down and says, we feel there is no violation, even if the board still feels there's a violation, we shouldn't do anything? No. No. No. No. **Speaker 11:** No. No. No. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. **Speaker 11:** No. No. Yeah. I think we've got to go with the experts, because if they say they're going to... According to the laws and that the total picture, if they say it's not, then it's not. Why do we want to make it if it weren't? **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Because I don't have... When we say they're experts... So I took... I'm using the word expert. Well, I took ethics courses, and I taught ethics in the hunter safety courts for 21 years. Yeah. So I guess I would consider it an expert building of ethics. myself a at least semi expert in ethics and I would look and say that I think that sometimes there's common sense in ethics you know and to me that means something and that is a being an ethical person I would want to make sure that things are done correctly even if the state doesn't look at it that way I think sometimes we locally see things different than the state does that's **Speaker 34:** just my opinion. But the state set what the ethics are. Sure do and they can set what the **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** ethics are but we can still and that's right it's that we can be more stringent but this we can also make policies that will avoid it all together. It is harmless to avoid it all together. **Speaker 4:** We could create an ordinance right now and end the whole thing. I agree. Thank you. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Thank you. **Speaker 1:** So a couple things just to touch base on the whole thing like Kirk said you can definitely go more strict than what that policy states which isn't necessarily a bad idea for example it does not say that the person that sits on that board if there is a conflict of interest that arises and they are a voting member of that board in a vote does that say that they have to leave the room with the deliberation before the vote but it is highly recommended that that person leave the room in the deliberation prior to the vote. So that is something like the town can make more go higher than the state level. Okay more stringent and the other thing is that I wanted to touch base on really quick from what Doug said like whatever you guys choose you guys choose this is why we vote you guys in this is why you guys are the board but you have I want you to take and take the consideration I'm hoping you will that if you if a conflict of interest arises it's been brought to you and then sent in the appropriate channel chain the plan up there and you guys are aware of it now you need to stop it now until the investigation is done like so for example let's say I'll use me I am sitting on a board that I can make a financial gain from it, for something that has come up. I am sitting in there and I make a vote that benefits me. You will not recuse yourself. Okay, I will not recuse myself, okay? There's a conflict of interest there, it's cut and dry, it's pretty obvious, somebody sends a letter in, you guys are aware of it, it goes up and you let it stay status quo until we get the drop down from their decision, but then again, I'm in another meeting or two and I'm still voting. **Speaker 25:** Right, that's what I'm trying to say. **Speaker 1:** So my point is, is that I think that if a conflict is perceived or brought to you, and regardless if you deem it to be a conflict of interest, it's a perception of, and it gets sent to the state, it would behoove the board to pending the outcome to either remove any individual, individuals, whatever the case may be, from the conflict all around until that comes in. It's almost like when somebody gets put on paid leave, you know, following an investigation, **Speaker 11:** you know what I mean? Okay, I see what you're saying, but I think there's a lot of laws, I think there's a lot of laws other than in here that cover this sort of stuff. For example, as we said, somebody can recuse themselves, but they can still go to the meeting. We've talked about this. They can still go to a meeting. They still can express, put in their two cents. The only thing they can't do is vote. What I'm saying is there's other laws, and... **Speaker 1:** But the ethics committee frowns on that, actually. **Speaker 35:** Yeah. **Speaker 1:** They, she made it very clear in an email that I passed out that she said it would be in the town's best interest for that person to leave the meeting. They can't tell you, too, because it's not in the ethics laws, but it would behoove the town or towns to not have that person present during the discussion prior to the vote because they can sway a vote by what they say. **Speaker 4:** But see, the punchline is that the person that should remove themselves from the room is the one that's gonna benefit the most. So they should just recuse themselves and remove themselves from the room. **Speaker 11:** I'm not disagreeing. What I'm trying to say to you is that if somebody, there's a law, at least from the readings I've done, as we said, the person can recuse themselves from voting, but they have the right to be in there, and we as a town don't have the right to tell them to get out, and they have to... I know, I saw your thing from what I'm hearing. It behooves us. But what I'm saying is we'd be overstepping our bounds if we say, out. No, that's the... **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** We have a policy that everyone has. But you're not overstepping your bounds. **Speaker 34:** You're overstepping your bounds. **Speaker 36:** It could be a second. **Speaker 11:** Because you go to a meeting, and it's a meeting who has the right to speak, who has the right to vote. It comes down to a matter of, which I'm thinking of a term now, due process. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** If there, well, let's get off the money part of it. What if there was a violation on one of our boards that was different in money? Say it was a sexual harassment. One of our board members sexually harassed another board member. Right in the middle. And then it comes to us, do we wait? Or do we suspend until there's an outcome of the... You know what I mean? Kind of like a teacher. If a teacher, if a kid said a teacher did something, they suspend a teacher with pay, of course. They suspend a teacher. We're law enforcement, same thing. Until there's a, until they solve the issue. Yeah. Do we do, can we do that? That's, guess what I'm getting at, is we know we can fix it. But from your standpoint, we should wait for the process. Right? I'm saying we should vote for the process. I mean, we can, I'm not saying this can't ever be tweaked, **Speaker 11:** or it's just written in stone forever. I think we have to be very careful. And from what I'm hearing here, these are all great ideas. But pretty soon, it's gonna get so complicated. Okay. We're a small town. I do understand that. We're a small town. And this is the process. And how many complaints are we gonna get? **Speaker 34:** Right, well, since I've been on this board, **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I've only seen one. Yeah. But, you know, people said there was more. I've not seen anybody write anything or bring it to the board. **Speaker 11:** Well, now there's a process to it. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Yeah. **Speaker 11:** But I mean, you know, ultimately, the vote, I think we should go from what I've been doing, the reading I've been doing. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I agree with this process. I'm not against the process. I'm just saying, and I guess we'll talk about this down the road with, you know, to an executive secretary. **Speaker 34:** And I'll try to find some of the things that. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** It is a personal . I'm just saying, I don't have a problem with the process, guys. I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is we can fix it without the process, without you worrying about the process, because it's a simple fix. I think it is. Maybe it's not. If you disagree, that's fine. I respect you 100%. Well, we don't know specific to what you're saying. **Speaker 11:** Right. Okay. Yeah. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** So we can discuss it. **Speaker 34:** But I do think we have to be careful about fixing things **Speaker 11:** ourselves, because if we overstep our bounds, this person might be happy. And then they get ticked at you for something. So they call up, oh, wait a minute. **Speaker 4:** These are possible to overstep our bounds in a policy where we can be more stringent than the law. Absolutely. You can possibly overstep your bounds. **Speaker 11:** Yeah, you can. How? Yeah, you can. Because like I said, there's other laws out there. Who can speak? Who is in a public meeting? Oh, I know. That type of thing. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I saw an example in North Adams, where there was a person. And he went up during visitors' time, the visitors' talk. And he was kind of rude. But it was his time. There's freedom of speech. They threw him up. Then the next day, he came again. They got a restraining order on the guy. He took it to court. He won because of his first amount of right. Once he won, he sued the judge. That's it. So I'm just saying, yeah, I agree with you. But I think we also can set policies of how we take care of our personnel. And part of that's our .. So I think we could change anything. **Speaker 11:** Well, if you have personnel policy, that's .. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I don't think that has anything to do with the ethics code, like changing the way we .. Like when we change the lister. We could set a for example, **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** any time we want to. Right. So we could, like I was saying, when we change the lister from being elected to being appointed, we could do those things. That's the law. And if we want to pay someone per this way or that way, I think we can't fix it. That's .. Those are .. **Speaker 36:** Payment matters. **Speaker 11:** They're not ethics matters. See what I'm saying? **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Right. They are ethics matters. But in this particular case, that could help the ethics matter, if I were looking at it. If I were looking at a policy to change at the same time. Maybe it won't. Maybe it won't. Maybe the personnel will still sign with this thing. I'm just saying maybe it will. And I can't see it being a problem. But we'll talk about that some more. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** OK. On to the whistleblower protection. This did not have to go online, or does it? It just protects the whistleblower. **Speaker 11:** I don't think that's it. I don't think .. The things I know .. The process. We get the .. Who is .. Ethics. **Speaker 6:** Yeah. **Speaker 30:** And the forms. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I don't think that had to go online. I don't think so. OK. **Speaker 37:** Can you guys just talk about the conflict of interest? I'm sorry. I walked in late. I saw something in the .. Can I address something, since I think it was kind of directed at me? In the last Selectmen's meeting, someone distracted at you, for one. Not at all. **Speaker 38:** Oh, wait, wait, wait. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** There's no .. We're just working on a policy. We're not doing any specifics. **Speaker 37:** I read something that's always concerned about being on too many boards. It's written .. **Speaker 39:** It's a new state ethics rules. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** We're just going over which boards can't. They came out in January with a new state ethics code. I read it. I know the ethics. That's what we're just going over, **Speaker 37:** which boards are conflicting and which aren't. And that's what I'm saying. I know what the law is, and the way it stands right now, you can be on .. Select Board, Conservation Board, and the Planning Commission. **Speaker 40:** Unless someone perceives it as a conflict. **Speaker 37:** With no .. Let me finish. State law, no issue. So if a person understands judicial, legislative, and executive, and knows how to separate themselves out, shouldn't be an issue. For example, when Kurt wanted to be on the Planning Commission and the Select Board, he wanted to be the chairman. The chairman votes. So that's a situation where he's on a .. Select Board, voting on something that he's advocating. **Speaker 4:** I didn't want to be anything, Dave. People wanted me to be. **Speaker 41:** Let me finish, please. **Speaker 4:** That's nothing but a .. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I'm not fed up with that kind of .. Guys, you're not faithful, Dave. You don't steal facts. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** No. Just, Kurt, wait a minute. State your case. Five, just a minute, two minutes, the most. State your facts. **Speaker 37:** What do you know with your people here? Two minutes or five? **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Well, we've done already 15 minutes on this, so. **Speaker 37:** I haven't only been speaking for a minute. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Well, keep going. **Speaker 37:** OK, thank you. All I'm trying to say is, in terms of these boards, it's you can be on the boards, but you really have to know what you're doing. I can outline five instances. Nobody's been crying about conflict and interest in this town more than me. I approached you seven years ago about it. Person on the Select Board, trying to get me off the planning commission when I was out for an accident. Got the people to vote on the planning commission, then went to the Select Board. Total conflict of interest. You know you were part of it. So my only point is that there are potential conflicts. But if you know what you're doing, you can't just say there's a conflict of interest. **Speaker 4:** So I would have a question that a board that creates rules and then a board that also judges those rules is definitely a conflict of interest. **Speaker 37:** That's an interesting point. Let me tell you how that works. In a rural town, which we are, you have three to nine members on the planning commission. Three of those members in a rural town are allowed to be on the ZBA. They encourage it. The reason they encourage that is because generally the people on the planning commission have more knowledge about the rules than anybody else. So if you look up the statute, and I can give you the number, they recommend they have three. So what you're saying is Sheila, myself, yeah, we're the only two. On. On. We shouldn't be on the board when the statute says we should be. **Speaker 40:** Personally, I think you should pick one of the two. **Speaker 37:** It shouldn't be a personal thing. It's not personal. **Speaker 4:** It's the law. It's the law, Kurt. It's personal. It's the law, the crew. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Do you want to move on? It's not the law. Kurt, we're going to move on. If you don't mind, Doug and I would like to consolidate this stuff and see what's going to go online and what's not. And then we'll try to have final for next time. Right. And we'll send it to you ahead of time so you can review it. OK. Thank you. Now my papers are getting a lot here. OK. Thank you very much. Review job descriptions. Well, we have a recycling center monitor that is still working. I think one of his duties was about the incinerator. So I think that's kind of gone. So if you want to look at that. Road Commissioner, I would like Dave to look at that and give us his input. **Speaker 2:** It is a requirement also by the town to have a recycling center. It's a little. If we want to get rid of it, we can. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I know. I was going to look into that. And I know we recycle. I don't know about garbage pickup. But I think recycling we have to have. Do we have to have it? **Speaker 2:** Yeah, I looked into it. It's a state. Yeah. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Because we have to provide, we've got to provide. Well. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Oh, we don't need to lose money on it. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** No. No. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** No. **Speaker 2:** No. That's not a topic. I'm sorry. **Speaker 22:** But that is. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Yeah. I don't know the answer to that. **Speaker 4:** We should try to come a little closer on the budget. But we should, I mean, we should weigh heavily on considering, you know, it is a town asset. You don't want people to start stowing trash into that nature on the property. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Right. Right. So the principal duties of operation consist of monitoring the operation and process of the recycling center in Stamford. Check for proper stickers on all vehicles entering. Well, we don't have stickers anymore. So we can take that out. Check incoming trash for proper separation and disposal of a variety of materials. They don't really check that anymore. **Speaker 12:** Some of this seems like it was written in the 80s. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Oh, I think it was, Kirk. **Speaker 4:** Is there still a gas pump at the firehouse? **Speaker 2:** I think a lot of it is more like a direction. They're like, what do I do with this? And they're like, oh, put it in this bin. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Yeah. Guidance. Guidance. Guidance. Provide guidance. Just, yes, provide guidance. Collect, provide guidance for incoming trash for proper separation and disposal of a variety of materials. Yeah. I like that. Collect coupons. Collect coupons or appropriate fees for appliances, tires, waste oil, and related items. What were the coupons? **Speaker 6:** All the little stickers that you have. Collect, so just collect fees. Collect appropriate fees. Yeah. **Speaker 8:** For appliances, tires, waste oil, and related, or? **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Yeah, I don't think, do we take waste oil anymore? We'll have to check that and see what. I can kind of. For all demo materials excepted. For what? For all demo materials excepted. Yeah, except for the demo material. Yes. Then we don't have to . Right, because that changes yearly. Secure coupons for fees in the town garage. **Speaker 17:** What's that again? **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Secure coupons for fees in the town garage. I don't know where they keep the money and all that. Secure and whatever. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** If someone brings an appliance, they have to pay extra, how do we know that the transition was made? Is there paperwork? **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Yes. I don't use it, so I don't. They get the original and Lori gets the copy. Okay. And the numbered receipt. Who gets the original? The person that brings the appliance in. Okay. If you paid $35, you get a receipt for the 35. Okay. Lori gets a copy of it. So her money and receipts should all be the same and they usually put the card number on there. Okay. Maintain records of town people not complying with recycling regulations and report the same to the selectmen. Well, they're pretty good at telling people that your punch card is expired. You need to go down and get another card. And I've never had any problem with people not complying with that, have you? You seem pretty good. Keep recycling yard neat and orderly. Responsible to the selection for supervision and guidance. And I thought we said that was for Dave? **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Well, we asked that. Does it say that the highway department supervisor is **Speaker 18:** in charge of the recycling? **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Somewhere it said that. **Speaker 19:** We have to make that known so he's the final site up there. **Speaker 2:** Yeah. I think he's already assuming that position as is. I think, but I'm just saying, if it's not writing, **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** it should be, but we have, you know, there's guidelines for those guys, the recycling people have guidelines to be doing certain things. If they're going above and beyond and doing other things, that's, you know, up to the supervisor to say, hey, **Speaker 4:** you don't have to do this, you don't have to do that. You don't. I want to say somewhere in this paperwork it's actually conflicting, but I don't find markup sheets at all. Yeah, that's cool. One says, like, reports to the selector and the other one says commissioner. I'm not sure. Let me just get it. Yeah, there's just some refurbished. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I think there's a lot of job description and that conflict here. Do these as requested? As requested. As needed? Yes. What I'd like to do is do a quick draft of this, give it to Dave, have him look it over, and then get it back to you guys for the next meeting. Sure. All right. Road commissioner, I'm going to wait on that one. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** This road commissioner one I'm looking at was adopted in 2008. Yep. They might have adopted it from the 1978 version. Well, that's what I'm saying. And then you can't look at this one. Yep. You see it was taped on tape reader. Yeah. Yeah. Is this gas pump? I don't remember a gas pump up there. I don't know. I think 2000. 2000. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** He probably supersedes this one. First laborer. I mean, this laborer is Michael, the assistant. Oh, I like this one. Work hours, 730 to 4 for the laborer. But the supervisor comes in at a different hour. Yeah. Wait a minute. That's something that's mixed up there. So we've got to be consistent on these. **Speaker 12:** This is Mike's title? **Speaker 4:** Laborer? **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Yes. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I didn't know you should be here. We can call him assistant. Supervisor. Supervisor. Yeah. Whatever you want to call him. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Yeah. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Like I always say, I'm giving you a promotion instead of a raise. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Right. Oh, yeah. Because the job description that we advertised for the highway laborer worked 6 to 230. But then on another job description, he worked from 730 to 4. **Speaker 4:** It just seems like everything we're asking them to have doesn't seem right. Then just call it a laborer. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Call it what? **Speaker 4:** Just call it a laborer. **Speaker 2:** It's more than a shovel. Yeah. Road commissioner assistant. Yeah. I suppose it doesn't work. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** So if we look those over, try to mark them up. I'll try to talk to Dave before the next meeting and get his input. And then once we get these, we should work on the employee handbook because that is outdated, too. That's 2018. I don't know if we changed much in there in 2018. Correspondence. Review letter from Vermont PBR regarding the 2020-21. The 2024 reappraisal result. So we just, just got, Lori just got a letter from PBR saying that one of the two test prongs did not pass. And they wanted to know why. So we sent the letter on to our assessor who's back and forth with the state property valuation report. So we need to find out if that's sufficient for their answer. And we'll have Lori write a letter if that's okay because we've got all the emails back and forth. Anything else on that, Lori? **Speaker 6:** Not on that. I do have different correspondence. Okay. Yep, go ahead. FEMA had sent me the final paperwork for reimbursement for, we're still working on the 2023 flood. We had three flooding damage. We had three projects. We've been paid for two out of the three. And then they decided to increase the return from the 75% we were getting up to 90% funding. So she did paperwork to bump us up the additional 15%. I got back to her and said no because we're still waiting on paperwork from that third one, the first 75%. Oh, missed that. So now I have a reimbursement request for the initial 75% on one and then the 15% additional bump up for all three jobs together. So if you'd like to approve and sign that, maybe we'll get . And this is for 2023? **Speaker 16:** 2023 flooding. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Yes. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Motion to approve. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Yep. Second. I don't know how you keep track of it, Lori. Thank you. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Just while she's signing that, did the Klondike Bridge ever get finalized yet? No. So talk about 2023. Let's talk about what year was that? I don't know what. **Speaker 6:** Oh, my gosh. One. One? **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I don't know. I'm telling you, though. So that still trickles in. **Speaker 42:** That's how . **Speaker 16:** We haven't done anything on that for years. **Speaker 28:** Yeah. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Don't say that because . **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** No, but I just don't understand why they don't close the case. You know. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I don't know. I don't know. Maybe somebody left paperwork got dropped. Who knows what happened. Old business. Or any other correspondence, Lori? No. Done. Old business. New business. I got a, Lori got an email from Martina Barnes from National Forest. She would like to come down to give us an update on the projects in Stamford. And she's going to wait until, I don't know, the next week or so. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. She's going to wait until spring? A couple of months? Yeah. Yeah. Just let us know. I'm thinking May. Okay. Anything else? Beth, can I sneak in a visitor hearing because I'm late? I'm in business. I wasn't planning on saying anything. **Speaker 17:** I said we'll let Dave. We'll let you. Thank you. I wasn't planning on saying anything. Thank you. But at our last school board meeting, the principal brought up the concern about the amendment to the law. The teacher didn't let us know. They had a fire call last week, I think, or the other Monday or whatever. And they had a van evacuate over to the church. And she said the sidewalks weren't plowed or shoveled. And the kids didn't have time to go change into boots when there was a fire call. You had to get out of the building. And they had their coats. But where they had to cross the road was, I think, I'm not, geography's off, but the fire department trucks come down one way and they have to cross on this side. Down there, yes. So there was a concern about maybe moving the crosswalks so they had to go this way and avoid any kind of the trucks getting in the way of the kids. The kids crossing was interfering with the trucks and vice versa. So they need to go around this way so when the trucks approach the school, they're not in that path. So I know the superintendent intended to call somebody here. And I just wanted to put it on the public record that I wasn't concerned. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Isn't that the emergency management? **Speaker 17:** It doesn't. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** The state set the crosswalks where they're supposed to be. **Speaker 18:** So who can take care of that sidewalk, state or us? **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** We do. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** We do. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** But it's not top priority because the roads, unfortunately. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** So we take care of it because it's ours or is it the state's? **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Ours. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** It's ours. Sidewalk. So we're going to know that. **Speaker 1:** Could that be part of the emergency management board? Well, isn't that something that they could look into? I mean, being a little bit more proactive, I'm not saying they're not being proactive, so don't get that twisted. I just want to say maybe it's something that the school could work hand-in-hand with to make sure. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** The first thing I thought of was, I'm not sure I haven't looked at it. If there's a crosswalk here, from the crosswalk to the sidewalk, what's the transition there? Is it a ramp or a step-up? **Speaker 9:** It's like a little ramp piece of sidewalk. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** And if you go over here and you run into the sidewalk and you have one handicapped kid. You're not in compliance. So now you've got to do something more. There used to be crosswalks on both sides of the school. The way the world is, that's what they'll say. They'll say, look, you have to have transition to get on that sidewalk. Personally, I don't know why the sidewalk was put in. It was before my time. But it just seems like it goes from one point. Listen, it doesn't make sense to me. You're going to have a sidewalk, but you can go all the way down the building. It was planned to go up longer, but it wouldn't have money. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** OK. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Nevertheless, there's a lot of questions I would ask the school board. Why are we taking the kids across the street to the church where the church didn't exist, where we became them then? So I mean, it's a fire drill. We bring them outside. Do we bring them over to school or the church? It's nice that we have it. But we have to find out if the church is in compliance also. **Speaker 17:** Well, I don't know fire codes or what the divinities have to do. But I don't know if this ellipse out here on the other side of this little driveway, if that's far enough away to interfere with the fire trucks for kids to be gathering there. So I don't know that kind of code. **Speaker 4:** Should they have like a muster point and everything? **Speaker 17:** That's just it. I think that's the church parking lot. This brings me to a point. It's nice that it's there. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** But what if it wasn't? We're going on someone else's property. Do they go all the way over there? Do they do like monthly fire drills? Yeah. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I don't think they go over there monthly. But they did go over there for that fire alarm. And they were very organized, very quiet. They were walking very good. They had the sign. But I did notice the truck coming down Stebbins. And I go, that's not good because the kids were in the way. **Speaker 1:** I would assume they don't want the kids crossing a path of truck. But I would think that they want them, they originally put them there so that they're not crossing a lane of traffic to get out there. So for example, if they come out the door and they've got to come across. The parking lot to get to a sidewalk. Either way, you're crossing where something's coming in. Where this, when they leave the building, they're along the edge. And they're not necessarily in the path of traffic. I would assume that's why they initially did that. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I believe the crosswalk is the state. Yeah. And they have it. **Speaker 1:** They don't have to do a curve cut, the whole shenanigans. Sure. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I don't think they put it there. So I think that the superintendent would need to do it. He said he was going to contact. But I wanted to bring this concern. Probably, he would need to contact the state to get a crosswalk for them. **Speaker 17:** I don't know who's going to call. But he said he was . **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** As far as the plowing, Dave does do that when everything else is plowed and taken care of. Sidewalk. Yeah, the sidewalk. He does go down there. Do you think the state did it with their backhoe, their bucket loader? **Speaker 1:** There's no doubt they did it. They pushed the entire road back. I think that they did that area. I'm assuming they did that specific area for the consolidated communications more than the sidewalk thing. **Speaker 43:** But how about on that side of the road? **Speaker 1:** They just started at the sidewalk and went that way. Went right up through. Yeah, went right up. It didn't even matter. Once they got past the sidewalk, it didn't even matter if there was sidewalk. They just kept going. Or they kind of just didn't go on that side in people's yards. They went right up and everything. Which I'm not mad. You know? No, no, no. You have a concern. That's good. I get it. Just, you know. **Speaker 37:** Yeah. I had a 20-foot pile I had knocked down from the state. The original sidewalk grant, actually, Nancy and I both had a lot to do with it back in 2004. It was supposed to go from the bridge to Jepson Road. The idea was that we were going to have a walk starting Mill Road to Jepson, and then we were looking for somebody who owned the in between, like the person in front of me, to donate so that the town could have a nice walk. That was a start. So that's what happened. People fought about it. It cost the town. I had left the select minister position. It cost another $80,000. They cut it in half to $250,000. And that's what you have. Thank God you had that much for the kids, because there really was nothing. To Kurt's point, there is sidewalks on both sides. You can go over there, you'll hit the sidewalk. On the opposite side of the road, there was a sidewalk. Where the sidewalk was? Off Summit. So this town, 50 years old, heads all the way to Billinets. **Speaker 4:** You look at that historical picture close to me. **Speaker 44:** It makes sense. **Speaker 1:** There is a sidewalk in front of my front yard. It's kind of overtaken. If I don't remember, I kind of went to the state to request them to clean it up, because it's kind of a trip hazard. I mean, if you really, you know, I mean, it's just, some of it sticks out, and I jam-hammered it out. Totally. **Speaker 4:** Well, Sheila, you've got a piece of sidewalk. We should dig that thing up. Right. **Speaker 20:** We'll do the pine trees. **Speaker 4:** Oh, those there. All the way to the tree. The farm. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** And on this side. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** It's too bad that the state wouldn't say to almost pretty up the Route 100 to put a sidewalk in there, a nice sidewalk. **Speaker 4:** Any traffic study will tell you to install a sidewalk, because the theory is that it narrows the road and slows down traffic. **Speaker 40:** Yeah. **Speaker 37:** We might be able to do that in Lakewood. It's a scenic highway, and they can. A whole other set of rules, and that's why it's probably going to have been done to this point. Take a look at the scenic highway laws. This was the first one in Vermont, **Speaker 45:** from Massachusetts to Canada. **Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Is there any other new business here? Because I'd like to go into executive session. Motion to go into executive session for pending the problem of civil litigation, and the other is for personnel. I'm talking about . All right. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Jay. **Speaker 37:** Thank you all. 715? Yep. Oh, . . I'll run it out . All right. Good. . All right. Not that. Oh, OK. OK. Yeah. I'll get through this. Take care. Take care. Bye bye. **Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I know, I just missed it. You lost for us. All right.