---
title: "Stamford Select Board — August 15, 2024"
date: 2024-08-15
session: regular
speaker_labels: 1 cluster(s) named from the roll call and that meeting's chair in the minutes, 1 named from roster attendance, 9 of 11 clusters unnamed
voice_ids: {"SPEAKER_00":17,"SPEAKER_01":6,"SPEAKER_02":64,"SPEAKER_03":2,"SPEAKER_04":7,"SPEAKER_05":5,"SPEAKER_07":4,"SPEAKER_08":3,"SPEAKER_09":24,"SPEAKER_10":1,"SPEAKER_11":63}
duration_min: 125
audio: https://townofstamfordvermont.org/mediaItems/Selectboard%20meeting%202024-8-15.MP3
audio_source: town local
minutes: https://townofstamfordvermont.org/mediaItems/Sbd%20Minutes%208-15-24.pdf
minutes_pending: false
present: [Nancy L. Bushika, Michael G. Denault, Kurt Gamari, Douglas Wright, John Dunn]
absent: []
transcribed: 2026-09-04 (faster-whisper large-v3, CUDA; names corrected per data/name_fixes.json)
diarization: pyannote/speaker-diarization-3.1 (automated; cluster labels may over-split a single voice; unattributed paragraphs have no reliable speaker)
---

# Stamford Select Board — August 15, 2024

**Session:** Regular · **Duration:** 125 min · [Audio](https://townofstamfordvermont.org/mediaItems/Selectboard%20meeting%202024-8-15.MP3) · [Minutes](https://townofstamfordvermont.org/mediaItems/Sbd%20Minutes%208-15-24.pdf)

**Present:** Nancy L. Bushika, Michael G. Denault, Kurt Gamari, Douglas Wright, John Dunn

---
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Welcome to the meeting of the Standard Select Board. If you have a matter to discuss that is not included on the agenda, you may do so by addressing the chairperson and stating your name and address. You will notice that all our meetings are recorded, and this is to aid with the summarization of the minutes. Visitors are welcome, and we allow five minutes of comments per visitor and 15 minutes per topic. Discussions will be held in a calm and civilized manner and respectful of others. Select Board members present are Michael G. Denault Nancy Bushika

**Speaker 1:** Douglas Wright John Dunn Kurt Gamari

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Will there be any adding of items that can't wait until next meeting, or removing of items from tonight's agenda?

**Speaker 2:** I may have additional correspondence as would come in.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Okay. Will there be any adjustments to the agenda, such as changing the order of items? Okay. Hearing of visitors. First is Dara Zink from Bennington County Regional Commission to review and adopt the Hazardous Mitigation Plan. Dara?

**Speaker 3:** Hello, everybody. So, Lori was very helpful, and she emailed out to the Select Board copies of that agenda. So, we have a completed Hazard Mitigation Plan. I did print two here, if you all want to pass it around and take a look at it. So, this has been a long time coming, and we're done. We finally got Vermont Emergency Management's approval on it. What happens next is it goes off to FEMA. They say, good job, and they send us a nice little letter back saying that it's all approved. So, it is in its final form now. The only changes that will be made. We'll be adding municipal adoption dates and then the FEMA adoption date on there. And then there is a section inside where I also have to add those dates just a few touches in. If anybody is curious about the contents, we basically went through every type of hazard that could happen in this town. And we evaluated that hazard for, you know, some historical effects and some positive and some potential climate change effects that could happen. We ranked all of those. According to priority. And then we created mitigation actions to help address some of the vulnerable areas here in town that could be affected by those. So, that is here for your review, if you would like it. It will be posted on BCRC's website as soon as it's fully complete. Stamford has its own beautiful little page on there that you guys can check out, if you would like. And this will be added to it. So, what happens when this is done is that Stamford gets it. Stamford gets an extra little check on further ERAF rates. That's the Emergency Relief Assistance Fund rates. So that you will get additional assistance from the state should a disaster happen and you need to fix roads and things like that within the town. Instead of paying a full 25% of that, you would pay less than that. Okay? That was really quick. I only have five minutes. Does anybody have any questions? Yes. Yes, Nancy. How long, once this is adopted. Yep.

**Speaker 4:** Is that tonight?

**Speaker 3:** You're adopting it tonight.

**Speaker 5:** Yes.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Or it has to form. So, once it's adopted, how long will that remain in effect? Five years. Just five years. It seems like.

**Speaker 4:** Just five years.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** So, should we start the new one now?

**Speaker 3:** So, in about two and a half years, Vermont Emergency Management will actually reach out to you at the town level. And start talking to you about grant funding. About grant funding to do this again. Yeah. And in order to keep it current and not let it go, you know, out of term, we just want to get started early so that we can finish it so there is no lapse in the plan. And so we keep Stamford's ERAP rate.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I think COVID got in the way last time and then change of personnel.

**Speaker 3:** Yeah. Things, you know, things like that happen. But just, and of course, moving forward, I track too at my level. So, you'll be hearing from me as well again. Which I know you're all excited about. Okay.

**Speaker 6:** So, I don't know.

**Speaker 2:** So, if you are ready to adopt that tonight, there is a resolution that you're going to sign. And then this is the agreement between the town and BC. BCRC for them to do all the work. Which was not signed way back when they started the work.

**Speaker 3:** And get paid for. And get paid for. Motion to adopt. So, what happened previously is my predecessor left. I came on in the middle of this plan. So, as I continued work on it, I didn't realize that that wasn't in place. Or it got lost in emails between my predecessor and myself, unfortunately. So.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** So, where does Nancy have to sign? The first one? Then the witness, I can sign? The test?

The test. Yeah. Did we have money set aside for them? That was paid for by a grant.

**Speaker 3:** Right?

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** A grant. A full grant. Okay.

**Speaker 2:** Good.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** All right. Yeah. I don't think there's a separate match. I like that. No.

Not for that. It's separate. 9889. Copy for that for you tonight. Take back later. Oh, that would be great. Thank you.

**Speaker 3:** Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay.

**Speaker 5:** Excellent.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Thanks.

**Speaker 3:** Legal. Done. Thank you. Thank you, everybody. And it was a pleasure to work with everyone. Bill, you put in a lot of time on that. Dave for fielding questions. Nancy can answer questions. So, I appreciate all of your work on that. You too. And I'll see you in two and a half years. Thank you. Thank you, Dave. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Thank you, Dave. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Thank you. Thank you.

**Speaker 7:** Okay.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Next up is Bill Brown.

**Speaker 7:** Hi everyone. I'm sorry I couldn't see개 I mean, I have to say, Dennis was smiling, He was— Dr. You want to last. That's great. Beautiful. Thank you. 30 days which is september 4th you could gamble that rates are going to go down and they're going to adjust but basically the agreement is five percent less a half a percent less than their

**Speaker 8:** current auto loan rate so did we already pay out the 232 that we've been saving we paid out 107

**Speaker 7:** or so the cost of the chassis okay uh a month ago or so and we paid that out then to the truck builder because we got forty five hundred dollars roughly credit for paying it immediately rather than when they were finished building the truck which is a pretty good deal at this point we're looking at probably november but i recommend that we take these terms i just discussed with lori the two things they offered and at first paul kind of negotiated this for us uh i don't think there's on the front page there's a monthly principal interest of 45 51 17. what kind of auto loan they get a first interest on the title we need to wait for lori to come back

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** in because she just brought to my attention that the six years but towns can't go out six years can only go out five years without doing a bond and we've never done a bond before so could they really renegotiate right Laurie do five years and doesn't the pound has to go to a town vote maybe I

**Speaker 7:** don't I didn't pay attention to the six years that's gonna shove that monthly

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** payment right right should lower the interest rate you know I mean to pay it

**Speaker 9:** off a better interest rate I'm sure they'll negotiate back for sure in five

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** years sure so if you would go back to them and see if they and then come back

**Speaker 7:** this was meant for discussion yeah yeah and if that's your desire will ask them to quote with a five-year payment 60 months at the same terms and I'm going back to you at the next meeting to sign

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** so this will be in effect when do we have to start paying this say we sign it next meeting when do we start paying this have to get the money which will be

**Speaker 8:** October 1st we probably will not

**Speaker 7:** not no we're committing the loan but we're probably not going to take the money in silver gaan Brit first payment first thing I just don't know now in

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** December okay and how much a monthly payment probably about girl that probably

**Speaker 8:** about it's more than forty-five hundred yes okay so right now we don't we've got

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** right now we don't we've got money we've got money so to speak like제� gradual in their account right yes so we can make payments November December January February March until March town meeting or close we can make payments we've got

**Speaker 2:** use that money set aside as a down payment along with the loan funds to say to pay for it so we won't have that extra money well oh how much can we pay out you're going to combine both of the funds to purchase the truck so we can

**Speaker 7:** ask for a first payment on January 1st at which point theoretically you have another $50,000 coming in in March

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** you're going to have to pay for it so we don't have that extra money to pay the loan so we can ask for a first payment on January 1st at which point theoretically you have another $50,000 coming in in March

**Speaker 7:** so we'll ask for terms with first payment on January 1st right for five

**Speaker 9:** years but that was the point of getting you know I don't see you know if we go

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** five years it should touch a little bit of interest but the lower of interest rates could be like a quarter percent by January that's it it's not going to go down a lot

**Speaker 10:** percent for auto six percent yeah I mean they're asking them to commit for 72

**Speaker 11:** months yeah and that it'll be 60 months so yeah if you come back to us next

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** meeting we'll figure out how much we have left in the fire truck replacement

**Speaker 8:** fund how long payments and whatever we know that we need 270,000 and we know

**Speaker 7:** that as of the 1st of January

**Speaker 10:** there'll be another 50,000 this is this is after the money down payment we're going to need this right the two hundred and seven which we already saw we knew

**Speaker 7:** that the 278 is based on the money essentially that we have now and we're doing some at the firehouse if they're going to do some looking at donations for what I'm sorry donations that will reduce it some for the fire truck yeah it will still be the two assuming we get the donations that we hope for that it leads to 70.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** okay okay well good to have this ahead of time so we can yep next meeting okay all right thank you Bill that's it okay uh Carol

**Speaker 12:** you can hand up for visitor yeah um yeah I just wanted to know if we could have some gravel around the roof because it'd be a shame to let that road go because it's in pretty good shape now and it's you put gravel when you do the in front of the bridge there washed out for that purpose

**Speaker 13:** uh is this the is this the class four section

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** mm-hmm on class four

**Speaker 12:** yeah it'd be kind of a shame to let it go and we might need it someday

**Speaker 14:** yeah I'd say that road's in pretty darn good shape for a class four road um I have zero money left for road maintenance for the summer if you guys decide you want to spend money there just to be fair I think you should drive around all the class four rows and see that I think risky Ranch is a lot worse off than Brown Brook and there's a lot more properties up there yeah use it so

**Speaker 15:** yeah I mean I'm not I'm just trying to be fair yeah you know there's a lot of work that could be

**Speaker 14:** done if we had the money and yeah I mean I don't think it's to the point where we're losing it I think there's you know maybe a rock that's picking up that I might be able to do yeah yeah but I haven't greeted that road yet here this summer shape this spring yeah you know priorities are we have two people you know so can and that yeah

**Speaker 12:** it doesn't wash out a lot that's why it's such a good road but it just needs a little dirt

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** can we be sure to add some for next year's budget we'll have to increase it but that's going to be like money on that or no tough sell for this year i i'm not saying it would hurt

**Speaker 14:** to put gravel on the road i'm just saying if i was at risky ranch and heard that you were spending money there and went up there i'd be pretty upset you know class four roads are class

**Speaker 15:** four roads it's it rocks i mean i've been on risky ranch road for 20 years

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** and i have the mentality that i know that it's classical road and that being said i do see others when they especially they buy something up there and they go we didn't know this was going to be like this in the springtime or in wintertime like well you should have you know it's like the other day i heard it was a person that was looking at something on sportsman's road and didn't wanted to know if they were going to shoot guns at the sportsman's club no i'll just shoot arrows don't worry about that you know but you know i didn't i agree that you know all these roads they pay taxes you know we do take care of class four roads to a point uh so we do need to adjust and i think maybe when we do our budget we can say that's the problem is if we go up on say grab deferred the price increase that's going to come because it always does every year we'll just we'll go up and we won't get any more you know i mean we're gonna we're already gonna have a price increase on sand and salt and gravel and fuel and we're gonna show the budget and people are gonna say holy crap dave's budget went up ten percent and we didn't get anything extra we got exactly what we got last year so we have that you know i've been talking to people about this is where it's not about this year it's not about next year it's where where are we going 10 years from now

**Speaker 16:** we need to have a huge conversation just about roads this is uh accessibility just you know i

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** actually mentioned it to dave i was up at the barn the other day and i said we need to find there has to be some kind of change in this town for taxes and we have to have more houses we have to allow buildings that you know these bylaws were just passed a year ago two years ago and i'm already saying maybe i know people don't want to have neighbors in stamford but then pay more

**Speaker 16:** we can't have it both ways it depends it depends what you're shooting for too right so if you're

**Speaker 17:** if you're getting a community of families that have a lot of kids that want to go to high school out of state and that kind of right you know you got a band you got to have a balance sure you got

**Speaker 18:** to have a balance of how much you develop i remember that we had someone say that it'd be

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** great to have all second homes come in here because they're taxed and they don't use anything that sounds good on the surface but then who sits on this board 10 years from now when you have no you have is people with no children you know yes so who joins the fire departments and you know that type of thing so we you have to have community so it's a big it is a discussion i hate to bring up wonder road stuff it's a big discussion we're on a shoestring every year you know i've been sitting on this board for 10 years and seeing dave worrying about his budget and the town worrying about their budget and the school even this school like to throw 100 buslets along but they cut and cut and cut last year you know and still

**Speaker 17:** i mean one one simple move that this is just a topic that kept for a conversation that you can do that would change things instantly is county roads class three right class three road and you invest all the money that you need to invest in it and you'll have development overnight yeah that's

**Speaker 19:** what the town wanted to do um yeah so dave do you think if you regraded it and see what it looks like

**Speaker 14:** and let us know i don't think it's bad i mean i i've got class three roads that are barely that good i mean go up the hill beasley hill there up past there's rocks popping onto that hill and i gotta plow it all winter and i try to do what i can before i have to start plowing with a bucket or two of gravel i mean well let us take a look at the road take a ride up there i think you're gonna take a ride there take a ride at risky ranch i think you're gonna see that yeah a big difference

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** and when um um the brown brook road that doesn't go all the way through right to consider the dead end class four right yeah it goes up there's a gate in the road right so there is no homes there other than you guys on the top but right now there's no residents on that road at all just john john's gravel bed you never know

**Speaker 20:** it could be on the house there now the old house up on top yeah yeah it's definitely a road that

**Speaker 17:** talking about roads that should have had a lot more thought into it

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** before well i just continued a couple years ago i went up i think when they changed the name i went

**Speaker 21:** up and there was a gate on the top that's on our way that's not on the town road so can you keep

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** going past that going past that you can go right by that all the way to the county road there's a

**Speaker 12:** short span that we have to develop but we haven't yet because we might lose our way on the other

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** side yeah yeah yeah so that's why that's not done

**Speaker 22:** our private road up park with gravel how far up i just refreshed my memory just class

**Speaker 23:** class three stops at john bulls sandbag right there at the entrance of this right john because

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** after that wasn't there a couple lots that could be developed too i mean yes john owns them but they could be sold as building lots

**Speaker 20:** on the left side right a lot before that so there's land all over stamford it's just a matter of how do you access

**Speaker 17:** it and that's the conversation about roads do you want to access it or not well right that's the big conversation people go on it with the horses people are driving up there all the time

**Speaker 14:** tax-based though i'm going to tell you the biggest problem you're going to have as soon as you start developing is the roads are already at their max they're already on hills they're

**Speaker 24:** already there so development everyone always says development more tax-based but that's

**Speaker 17:** a double-edged sword it's not necessarily the case you're going to invest more you're going to have to invest more in schooling and roads and infrastructure i don't see how you're ever going

**Speaker 12:** to get ahead we're talking about risky grants which is really really bad and then we're talking about brown brook which needs a little bit of gravel why let it go but he's always saying don't

**Speaker 25:** let the roads get that far i don't think it's that far i think if i went up there and graded just the

**Speaker 14:** hill part of it like that rock that's popping out yes at the end of the world but see what you think after you grade it all works popping out i mean the other thing is it's the time when do i invest there's more or less considering everything else there's almost no traffic up there versus where

**Speaker 12:** there's a bunch of traffic we have to go that way when there's when nobody takes the tree out

**Speaker 14:** i'm guessing i don't know how many how many vehicles you think whooping risky or even around county road i don't think it's a hard argument if you're going to prioritize if you're going to prioritize where we spend time and money yeah that's been a good cruise forever yeah so it's nothing against it's nothing against carol i understand what she's talking about

**Speaker 26:** let's see what happens if you grab i spend time in that one little spot instead of you

**Speaker 14:** know it's all these little things like i know it sounds simple but there's two of us and i'm sitting here telling you that i don't have time to deal with what she's talking about at this point on a priority level well okay because then the road's going to wash out going up to the county road right because the ditches get full and then or the culvert needs to be dug out or changed i got one by maria's house now that's water's coming out of the road because that color is no good i mean it's a never-ending there aren't culverts on there like i'd be more than happy more than happy to show you that we have spent quite a bit of money on that road in the past there's maybe one or two steel culverts left i've changed i would say four or five it's not that we've totally neglected that road i'd say it's almost one of the best class four roads we have in town there is it's just a matter of personnel and money just like everything else

i think you need a budget

**Speaker 14:** don't you i'd be more than happy to take the whole board around and give you the picture of i have the picture of the whole town in my head and even if it's one at a time or two at a time because i only have issues with doing it more than that so we can show you what i'm working on what i need to be working on would it be nice to be working on what's a priority what's not i mean it's a it's a huge list a huge list we're working on work right now i'm trying to get a grant along a hazard mitigation on easter that's a 600 000 project fortunately the grant we're putting in for is a fully funded grant but all that stuff takes time right the amount of time that i have

**Speaker 15:** to put in you know i i'm sorry go ahead you know i actually had a conversation with a town resident

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** about two weeks ago about how come we're not and they just be honest with you i don't know what word is it's not ignorant of they're not ignorant people it's ignorant of the facts and i told them i said we file for grants we apply for grants all the time that doesn't mean you're going to get them but it says dave and laurie are always applying constantly it doesn't mean you're always going to get them but we do so i don't know where you know people are trying to grab money out of thin air one of the things i think we should do and kurt was saying it too is uh this is a discussion that we have budget time coming up in about two months this is something we need to sit down and say and again the townspeople are going to go our taxes are going up yep i'm gonna i'm gonna go on a record right now that taxes are going up next year i'm gonna go on a record and say that and in the following year it's gonna go up again in 20 years from now it'll probably go up again because that's what taxes do prices go up i've never seen prices come the other way to the point where our town taxes go down you know it's just like dave said where are we going 10 years 15 years from now is it sustainable it it is in a way if we just everybody says yeah i'll pay my taxes okay but if people can't afford it they can't afford it we have to look in this just this year we have to look at this budget and say and i and i would respect you dave you're so damn conservative that i've heard bill who's also conservative telling you spend some more money you so you got two conservative guys and Bill's telling you to spend some more money. We have to look at it and say if Whatever the number is this amount of gravel isn't enough We'll budget for this amount of gravel and if we have to you know, I agree You know we should never let roads go to the point where it costs us a million dollars I get that but also I agree that there's priorities and I do I mean Risky Ranch Road from the bottom end isn't so too too bad. The top end I mean, there's a spot up there where the mud, you know, you know what it is They drive through the mud, they're jerks. And the culverts go like this The culvert's supposed to be underground and sticking up in the air, you know, he fixes it they drive over I just happen to see Risky Ranch a lot That's what we talked about before is if you fix East Road the people on the Sher Road are gonna say Hey, how can you fix the East Road? I Understand, you know, it's all about that. I see that but we got to look at the budget good this year And if it you know, it's better to go up a little bit if we went up 10% Let's go 12% and then it won't look so bad five years from now one like we just did these Re-evaluations everybody freaked out because we waited so long, you know It's a way of life Dave said that

**Speaker 17:** Yeah

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** So okay for tonight then Do we agree that Dave should look at maybe when you can get to grade it? See what it looks like after that and we'll have this

**Speaker 23:** Discussion at budget time and how much we're gonna be putting in the budget the thing you need to consider is and I guess why I'm

**Speaker 14:** That conservative about us because it's temporary. It's all temporary, right? Yeah, these aren't permanent fixes. These are temporary You're throwing money for a temporary fix. Mm-hmm plain and simple and I to me that's you're just throwing me away because It may be good today And you can do a perfect job on it And then we get two or three thunderstorms Once somebody drives in the same spot a couple times it creates a wheelsack, right? And that's probably what's going on on the hill up there. It's a wheelsack right from everybody driving an exact same spot So if I go up and grade it or I put gravel on it in a matter of a couple weeks

**Speaker 27:** It's gonna look exactly the same way, but you do agree that you're not gonna let it go through the point of roads washed out

**Speaker 14:** No, I think they got to pick out to the point where I was like, oh boy I'll make it there's gonna be more work for me. If I don't do it. I'll be there So that's that's kind of how I look at it

**Speaker 12:** Can I make one more comment? The gravel yard is right there

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** While I got Dave, I guess we're still talking about roads, so while I got him on the trees Did you ask the people that they were cut that they were picking up the trees to cut the ones up on the lane?

**Speaker 14:** They only gave me a price on it Okay, but you know what? He said he's gonna do it. He's gonna do it. He's gonna do it. He's gonna do it. He's gonna do it. He's gonna do it. He's gonna do it. He's gonna do it. He's gonna do it. They had to come back to do it anyways because they're so busy. They were here on Monday and they took care of the lane. They're supposed to come back tomorrow and work again But they've had to they've had to prioritize because they have jobs where it was dry and they needed to do them while they were dry So they had to leave. So they may not even finish tomorrow. I don't know

**Speaker 15:** But you did ask. The ball's in their court. Yeah, I asked them if he's supposed to get a price

**Speaker 14:** I'll probably bother him again because They'll they're just so busy Yeah, sure. That's just the way it is

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** So any other visitors comments Okay Let's move on to reading and approval of records and orders site visit meeting of August 1st and the public hearing minutes of August 1st for the

**Speaker 28:** Class board

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Second second all in favor Regular minutes of August 1st 2024

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Motion second all in favor

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Road conditions

**Speaker 14:** I do have a grant for Jeff's in row where I got a couple hoping to get them done sooner than later because they have to get them paid, one of them is going to need some pay to work. I don't know if we mentioned the East Road Grant, but we did get a paving grant for East Road.

**Speaker 23:** I think we did.

**Speaker 14:** Because I haven't been here for a while.

**Speaker 26:** Yeah, I think we talked about that.

**Speaker 14:** I'm working on the Boggs Culver Grant, which is about a $600,000 job through the hazard mitigation program with Dara and Lori. What else? Our 2019 Freightliner is at Freightliner. It's got a transmission issue. We've been having a lot of it. It's getting to that age now where everything's just kind of, you know, whether it's rust or just age is getting to it now. So we've spent a little bit of money on that and time working on it. But it's up there right now. The shifting is off in it. It's an automatic. So we service the transmission. But it's still doing it. So they said there could be a couple different things. They have one part of it figured out but not the other. So I'm waiting to hear back on that. Like I said before, I have no money for any more graveling for the summer because we spent almost all of it on the mud season. You know, when you start talking about roads and adding houses, that's one thing that you have to decide whether are we going to spend the money or tell folks they've got to drive through it. You know? It's rare. Yeah, let's have a bunch of building but the roads are at their max. You have to have the infrastructure that's like don't put the cart before the horse type thing. So other than that, I don't know if you guys want to bring it back up again but I was told that the board was given some information that I don't believe is correct about town trails. I looked through the entire statute, the whole chapter. Chapter 19 and nowhere does it say anything about town right-of-ways where you can't have wheeled vehicles. If anything, it says that the town has control over their right-of-ways and has the right to restrict if it wants to. Other towns have policies on their trails. Some people limit, some people don't. The other thing to consider is that we already have residences on town trails. In town. So if that was the case, they couldn't be getting to their house. I think that the information that was given was possibly because of national forest policies or the state of Vermont itself trail policies. But town right-of-ways I believe are different and I'd like for some of you to prove me wrong.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** So we didn't change the class of that road. We kept it as a class road. We kept it as a class 4. That jeeps can go on it. ATVs can go on it. And we just have to do minimal maintenance.

**Speaker 14:** Rill. So that Act 64, we're supposed to, well it's up to the good and necessity of the town. But that Act 64 requires rill erosion to be maintained. What's rill erosion? Rill is when water runs down the road and has nowhere to go basically. It's above the water bar. Yeah. But either way, so you kind of have to maintain the shape of the road to some extent. On a trail, we had no maintenance. My thought is if you're going to put side-by-sides, I mean I had one go by me today up on County Road and you can watch the tires chew. You're going to have instant rill every time somebody comes along. On a trail, we don't have to even worry about that maintenance. Now, I don't know how many side-by-sides will be using that trail, but I'm guessing it's quite a few. And I don't know how the state of Vermont is going to move forward with enforcement on some of this. Right now, they're pretty lenient as far as they're not breathing down our neck with it. But they could start sending people around to enforce it. And if we're going to allow that type of activity, I think it would be silly that we were responsible to maintain it at any level. Because you're not going to be able to keep up with it. And then you're going to put yourself out there. Yeah. You're going to put yourself in a position where you're trying to get money or the clubs to fix it constantly. It just seems like the best position for the town is a trail, a town legal trail. I still think you should seriously consider doing that if you're going to consider the side-by-side option.

**Speaker 1:** The issue with the side-by-side thing was they used the trail. Once you get to the tension line, where do you go from there? Even if we give it to you, you can ride it up to a certain point and then you're dead in the woods. So there's really no push to really put it to a trail. Am I wrong? Where are you going to go if we made it to a trail and allowed you guys to ride on it? Because it's a gate up there, right? Remember she said it's a gate?

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Yeah, I think that the reasoning for this discussion was to set an infrastructure. Here it's ready, then go to the National Forest and say, Okay, we have this in place. My understanding was when we went back before we talked about changing this to a trail, my understanding was they wanted a trail. Then she came and gave us this information. It's one of those things where it's like a doctor and a physicist talking, and I've got to listen to both of them. I'm neither. And right now I don't know what the truth is. I did read what Laurie passed on. I wanted to do what's right for the town first, but then this side-by-side riding, if it went up to Sucker Pond or whatever you want to call that trail, it would take the people off of County Road and put them up that way because right now you're right. John's right. They ride up through Pono, they come around the loop and around the loop. There's really not the riders like you think. There used to be when they first started. Now you get bored. It's like riding your backyard. You get bored. Nobody wants to go that way. But I did read what you said. And what I read, I agree with you. And then I got this lady from National Forest, you would think. It's National. They should know what they're talking about. Telling us something different. I want to assure, or be assured I mean, that this road never is closed down to go from here to Pond or to Route 7 with any vehicle. I don't care what you call it. You can call it a path for all I care. I just want to make sure that we can always be in control of Vietnam. We'll go from here to there. Because it is, to me, it's an important road if things need to be someday. You know, whether or not we ever develop up there, if we get the infrastructure, some way we had a grant, if you put the infrastructure up there, that'd be a great road to have under our control. I agree with you. My other question would be is, and maybe you can answer this, it seems to me that if a sled board is in power of changing a road to a trail, wouldn't we be in power of changing a trail to a road? Sure.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Well, then there's problems changing it back to a road from a trail. Then you've got to have your survey.

**Speaker 28:** When's the last time the state's been in here to look at our class 4 roads?

**Speaker 1:** I would recommend not inviting them. No.

**Speaker 14:** Actually, if you read the report online, they actually said that we have some of the best class 4 roads they've ever seen.

**Speaker 28:** And if you go down to a trail, if you want to turn it back, you're going to invite the state to come in and inspect it.

**Speaker 29:** If you want to go back to the class 4.

**Speaker 14:** I don't think they do that. We've changed. We've added mileage. We've taken it off. They just accept what we've done.

**Speaker 29:** That's what somebody told me.

**Speaker 28:** They're probably not going to come and inspect the roads. We're not.

**Speaker 14:** Well, why don't you try to bring something? It's a portion of a road. You're not getting rid of the whole road.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** And to bring it back, I think it's going to be more paperwork and stuff that we want to deal with.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Well, I guess that's a what-if situation. I understand that. But it seems to me, let's be honest here, it seems to me that Tom and your group, want to keep a class 4 road for some reason. And I don't understand why at this point. What is the reasoning for that versus changing it? Because prior to this, it sounded like you guys wanted it to be a trail. Now we're saying it would be in our best interest as a town to be a trail. But now there's this walking on it.

**Speaker 28:** Well, the club never wanted it to be a trail. You guys had mentioned all through the map. The club is looking out for the interest of the town. What's best for the town. The club's not making any recommendations.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** See, I always thought you guys wanted this connected. That word connected. You can use it either way.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Because you can use a class 4 or a trail as a connector.

**Speaker 28:** It has to be legally opened up to be used for ATV and other vehicles.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Now, John, you said something about side-by-side. Is that considered bigger than an ATV and more like a...

**Speaker 1:** I think it's the same thing, right?

What's that?

**Speaker 1:** The ATV versus... The ATV. The ATV versus a side-by-side. It's still considered an ATV. Yeah.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** And it is still open right now. And under our ordinance, we said that you can ride there. Right. We've already said that people can ride there.

**Speaker 28:** Well, according to the Forest Service, one of their standards... So there would be a wording in it. It had to be open up. There can't be any stipulations. Who can use it? It has to be...

**Speaker 30:** There isn't.

**Speaker 31:** There isn't.

**Speaker 30:** Well, residents...

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Doesn't say that. That's not true. That was talked about in the meeting. But then we said, all people... Because I talked about it, about discrimination. Discrimination. And I said, all legal riding. That was the motion that was made. Because we want... There was other select board members at the time that wanted it, just for the camp owners. They wanted it just for residents. And then people were going, well, wait a minute. What about my friends? They come up here and they say... It's not their land. It's their own land. There was no way of enforcing that. So we said, all legal... All legal riders. But they had to have all their legal steps in place. So I just know from experience, from being on certain trails, that there's signs in place

**Speaker 1:** that'll say, no ATVs past this point, or ATVs ride here. I didn't see anything like that up where we did the road inspection.

**Speaker 32:** There is at the intersections.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** If you go to... At the bottom of County Road, when it turns into a class three, there's a sign there at the intersection. At the bottom of Risky Ranch Road. Risky Ranch Road, it says you can go left coming out of Risky Ranch, but you can't go right. Yeah. So we're...

**Speaker 1:** So how do you... I'm just curious to how you maneuver around up there, because... You don't. You just go... Not legally. You can maneuver, but that's not legally.

**Speaker 33:** No, legally you can...

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** No, legally you can go right around...

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** If you're a legal rider, you have all your state... Vassal... Vassal and all that crap. You have all that in place. You can ride from my camp, come out, go around the loop, come back. You can ride down to County Road to the class four and stop and turn around. You can go up to Shank Road and stop and turn around. You can actually ride on Broad Brook if you literally dropped your ATV off on the class four road, drove up to where you guys ended, turned back around, that's a class four road. So we... Our ordinance says you can ride here. Yeah. I don't know why anybody would want to, but, I mean, you could. But the... Yeah. I don't know why anybody would want to call it. But the thing is, is there is legal riding up there now, and that trail, or class four road, whatever you want to call it, is part of that legal riding. My... I just... I still... This is one of those things where we talk about... I hate to say this word, like, fighting over a sign. We're back and forth, back and forth, but it doesn't make sense at this point if Dave is saying that it's in the town's better interest to be... It's in the town's better interest to be a trail. And then we look at it. I looked at the writing, and we say, okay, sounds good to me. And then the... Not the state. The National Forest comes in and says, well, no. And then... She said something about changing... You know, with respect to you, Tom, I'm saying, is there a reason why we need to do this? She said to me. But the National Forest won't. Right. Well, this is what the National Forest sent us. Yeah. Yeah. So if we wanted to apply... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

**Speaker 1:** Yeah.

Yeah.

**Speaker 1:** Yeah. And then if we... And we apply for money for that road, as a trail, would we be allowed to? Because I thought that was part of the pitch that she gave us, is that we changed it from a class four road to a trail. Once it was a trail, we needed money to maintain the trail. Because we moved it to a trail, are we not allowed to... Why would we need money to maintain the trail, if we just took the money, and we just have to go and maintain it?

**Speaker 28:** I don't know, but that's what I believe she said when we were at the meeting.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Right. The ATD quote, minimal maintenance... Right. You know I understand you have an email that says they it's the wording But we allow riding it sounds like we don't have to maintain it if it's a trail so why You guys we want to look at it. You actually go and look walk down or anybody ever been down the road

**Speaker 34:** It's it's a river. It's a very bad. Well. You have to put so much money there is no maintain talk about

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** grading

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Laurie has a question So here's my question if we change this to a trail

**Speaker 14:** Can the jeeps ride on it? Yes? Yes, unless you tell them they can't right? It's the town's right away This is not the National Forest right away It's not the state It's the town's right away and the town exercises control over its right-of-ways Now we have total control on a trail the state tells us what we have to do on a highway

**Speaker 1:** Right that is the difference is there a way to secure the survey that we have now as a road Turn it to a trail and still document It's the same

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I'm going to tell you not a survey. I'm going to tell you what comes to me This town as long as Dave Tatro is in charge that road is not going to get maintained We just heard and you know I'm going to tell you This is not a I'm being blunt here guys It's true that you don't need to just pull us we don't have any money. We don't have we've got two men We have priorities if Rod brook isn't a priority this piece of property is not going to be a private holy crap I mean. It's it's a piece of rock it's a city it's not you might as well go to a lot of property and see for yourself. You know take care of the brook that comes down here and get in there and make that road.

**Speaker 12:** But the point that you said before was, just you know you don't have to maintain it, nobody's expecting you to maintain that, but to keep it open for the future, to connect the road to Palo Alto.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** What? And just like Tom said, if that becomes a connector road, the club will make sure that happens, because the club already said, look, the club wants the Palo Alto to be on their side. They're not going to say, we're going to make this a mess. They want it to be so that we can drive up there. That's not going to be a problem. And I truly do believe that we can bring it back if things go bad.

**Speaker 14:** We can. You maintain the same right-of-way. I mean you can read, I read through the whole thing, it retains the right-of-way, whether it's a trail or, they never used to have classifications.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** And the other thing that says, the other thing is, we don't want that. We don't get money now. It didn't say we can't maintain it, it says we don't have to maintain it. That's, that's, so we could go down there if we had to and say, well we're going to have to go down there and make it a little nicer. We could, if we wanted.

**Speaker 17:** So we would have to invest money in it either way if we were to do anything down there in the future, and it's already a class four road in rough shape. Right. So it would take another investment anyway, you know, if we were going to do something different down there, which we could always do in the future if we had to.

**Speaker 14:** Legally we're obligated to do something now. Right. That's why I would like to see the town turn into a trail.

**Speaker 35:** Right.

**Speaker 24:** If they could come in and say, you know, that has to be part of the class four standards.

**Speaker 1:** If we turn into a trail, then what, what happens?

**Speaker 17:** Nothing.

**Speaker 28:** Nothing. It's still, what's the highway number?

**Speaker 36:** Twelve.

**Speaker 17:** Twelve. It relieves a lot of maintenance.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** But it's not going to harm, it's not going to hurt your connection, right? Don't worry, it's not your trail, but if we go to apply for granted help with maintaining that in the future,

**Speaker 20:** I don't think, I don't know if we're going to get any of this.

**Speaker 28:** We're still going to use, it'll be, the process will still be Town Highway 12, whichever portion you guys open up for the connect here, and then TR 301 to the Woodford line. It's the only portion of the line.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** So anytime you go on other trails, I mean, I'm talking about trail trails, and you apply for grants, it'd be the same thing. I mean, there's, you guys are up on a stagecoach road, and you want a grant for something. It'd be the same type of thing, right?

**Speaker 20:** You apply for it on a stagecoach.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Right, right. So if they want ATV riding, which I don't believe that the natural forest does. So it seems like a conversation that's almost, it's always like this big, it seems like this big wall in front of you guys. And I would love to help you out as much as possible. But it does seem like the discussion about our .3 miles of property isn't really going to help you guys much. At this point, you know. It's a piece of the puzzle. It's a very small piece.

**Speaker 30:** It's still one of the standards. Yeah.

**Speaker 28:** It's a standard to allow motor and activity on the property that has to come off the property onto an open road.

**Speaker 30:** Right.

**Speaker 28:** Another trail would be down to the bottom.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** And we're actually saying, go ahead. We've already said that with the class four. And if we change it to a trail, we're still saying, go ahead.

**Speaker 20:** Yeah, I think they just need the language.

I'm looking at this language now that we have in our.

**Speaker 1:** Does the state give you any requirements for what you have to do to the trails that you ride in?

**Speaker 28:** National Forest will set the standard.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** What does the language, when you say the language, what does that, what do you want it to say? I'm not saying we will do it. I'm saying what do you want it to say?

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Why would National Forest tell you what's got to be on our trail?

**Speaker 28:** Not on that road. But we can, like, 301.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Is that what John asked?

**Speaker 33:** Is that what John asked?

**Speaker 1:** Just in general question, like trails in general. Because, I don't know, I'm just thinking, I think it was that every 150 feet there's supposed to be a water bar.

**Speaker 37:** Correct.

**Speaker 28:** There's a standard for trails that's called, we were just talking about it.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** That's the National Forest rules.

**Speaker 28:** Well, no, it's a country-wide standard. It's a state thing, right? No, it's a country-wide standard. U.S. government. I can bring that in and show you.

**Speaker 1:** So if we change that road to a trail, we would have to put in water bars every 150 feet.

**Speaker 37:** No, we're not doing all that.

**Speaker 1:** That's something you would take care of.

**Speaker 28:** The club would be taken care of. If you were coming right at it. Right, through the maintenance.

**Speaker 37:** Gotcha.

**Speaker 28:** I'm just trying to understand that. Well, maintenance would be incorporated from that section of the connector trail up into the National Forest to suck the water.

**Speaker 34:** That would be some kind of maintenance.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I guess my next question is, okay, you guys are going to go in there and you're going to put this water bar in. It's our road. It's our road.

**Speaker 20:** I still have to come down here.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** You have to come down here. So would you have to be bonded like the people of Clowns now?

**Speaker 28:** We do. Okay. We have a $1 million, $2 million policy. Okay. And then all the plans have to come down here and you guys have to look at them and approve them before they have to do anything.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** So that's straightforward. That's easy.

**Speaker 14:** Yeah. We don't have a good trail policy. Right. No. Which we should because we do have people maintaining trails. Sure. At least two. We don't want to get hurt. We don't know, right? Well, the thing is we're not responsible for safety or maintenance. So the town, unless we went and did something that caused me to get hurt, we're not responsible. But if somebody else does, you'd still want to try to protect the public from somebody doing something wrong if you could. We should have a policy that says if you want to maintain a trail, you have to have an agreement with the town. Right. Which is easy to do. We can do that.

**Speaker 28:** We don't have liability reasons.

**Speaker 14:** Right. We don't have any liability. Right. Well, that's on the passable.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Dave, on Act 64, is that a law now? That's been a law for a while. So what statute is it? Do you know? I don't know. It's under probably 19-

**Speaker 14:** It's the Clean Water Act. It's the one that I get grants for every year.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** It's under the Clean Water Act? Yeah. It's within the hydraulically connected, hydraulically connected road. I don't know.

**Speaker 23:** I don't know.

**Speaker 14:** I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Hydraulically connected road segments is what it is. Well they make you work all over for this stuff there. Well, yeah. Treat it.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** You can work here. You just can't find it under roads and highways. Yeah. The wording that we currently have, all riders and passengers are required tond and forward all state and federal regulations regarding the operation of ATVs. The select board reserves the right to amend or reject this authorization at any time,

**Speaker 20:** for and favor one of the road restrictions and the rest of the review in the form of a motion. akov who's at the city council meeting tomorrow, the council meeting tomorrow, the program meeting tomorrow. right because that does say all right right so now what I want to do is go back to what they actually sent in the email to the National Forest Plan so this is a Green Mountain National Forest Plan this has been out there for years it was in the section I'm trying to find that section as I look through this there's a section that she pointed out the wording has to relate to the forest plan and it was a little off so that's what we were trying to fix on one piece that's why we need a connector and that's why we wanted to do the language

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** correctly but this that issue has nothing to do with whether it's a trail or a class 4 road correct so is there any objection right now of changing it to a trail because I don't want to go back I don't want to wait six months from now and have to do another damn site visit and advertise it this is the motion we made last week was that we would keep it a class 4 until other information came up correct David's here now we have other information and I'm just I read what you said and it seems to me that it's in the best interest of the town at this point to keep or change it for a while if there's an objection to that I can go back to Dave's quote is

**Speaker 38:** prove me wrong and that's what I haven't heard a yet I would like to say if we do

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** that that's very serious thing to change it from to have a vote on this road

**Speaker 39:** changing without having it on the agenda that we're going to what it is a motion

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** that was open for class mean yes I agree with that but I think it should be Nobody came to the public meeting. Nobody came and it's just I think I want to dot my eyes cross my t's But that's me. I think it should be on the agenda. I just think that

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I think people should be at these meetings whether there's an agenda thing or not, you know that I Have no problem waiting because it doesn't seem like it matters at this point, but it To me to put it in the agenda and have a packed meeting of people coming in here You know, they they come in and yell about ATVs then you don't see them for another two years. It's like They voted for us to make decisions and I personally think that we could make this decision like that I Don't care if we wait and I would out of respect for you I'll wait but I just think that we kick things down a lot because we're worried about what the townspeople are gonna say well Then don't don't elect us

**Speaker 39:** Everything let's go ahead and make the motion with the other board

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Well, I don't have a problem out of respect for you. I wait, but I just don't I haven't heard anybody say Here's why we should keep it a road

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** It's not I think it's just matter of Prince not principle, but legality that I think it should be on the agenda but

**Speaker 12:** I just wanted to say that are you sure that it's a good idea to take it from class for in case my share

**Speaker 40:** No

**Speaker 17:** No, you do the same thing we would have to bring it up to the standards that they don't bring it up to

**Speaker 14:** It's not a new town road We're not

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** We get no money at all for a class for so that the money's off the table We're not obligated to maintain a trail so if it's a trail and we Hey, we want to make it a little bit better We can we don't have to change back to a road We could just make it a little better because we're not getting any money from the state anyway

**Speaker 17:** So we're like you're from reading the one Carol saying she's more like it's you know more of it than the class for a road It's more like the class three road or something where you commute back and forth to Bennington

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Well, we would have to upgrade everything. Oh, yeah, we got a wide growth. We can't do that with time That will make a serious upgrade, right? Because everybody talks about doing class three all the way to combat down the classroom Because what cars for the road goes over to banking which is in the next five years probably but yeah, you know I mean people that want to get out of there Jimmy Williams, so it's here It would be nice if you could drive all the way around but in order to make that a class three road

**Speaker 34:** It would right that's me. I'm gonna take this all over again. So you right now the trail for the word, right?

**Speaker 1:** to open up another trails with

**Speaker 20:** Yeah, this is like the

**Speaker 1:** first domino

**Speaker 28:** Correct

**Speaker 41:** The first for me this crawling and can I read you exactly what they want in the national forest plan?

**Speaker 20:** so motorized vehicle standards or that's one two, three four down to five and six seven are high limit Summer off road vehicle trails shall be limited to connecting quarters that link sections of a larger statewide regional sub-regional or multi-town summer motorized trail system located off S lands trail Terminal or trail heads for summer or B trails shall not be located on slams, which they're not And I'm entirely or predominantly contained summer or B trail system should not be located on another slams That's that's the three bullets that she highlighted

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** They're not

**Speaker 20:** No And up top that's why it says the Green Mountain National Forest trail system shall remain closed to motorized vehicles unless designated

**Speaker 42:** with them right there trail there our trails are our

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Yeah, whether we call it a trail road or anything It's our road or your world right? Yeah, I don't

**Speaker 20:** Use on this piece because S3 says jeeps four-wheel drive cars and trucks and similar street-sized vehicles shall be limited to open and up S roads

**Speaker 14:** Somehow they seem to think that they can control theirs, but we can't

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Right, we're not on theirs And they they could allow jeeps and other on their trails. They're not they're not even allowing you to walk up there with a Lava, yeah

**Speaker 30:** Lava

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Yeah, you can't walk your own You can't take your own

**Speaker 21:** They use it as a land

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Right That's a big another big discussion

**Speaker 12:** What was that part that they shut off and you can't go on?

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Well, they didn't shut

**Speaker 43:** Anything off

**Speaker 12:** Just sucker power

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** But they do own Risky Ranch Road, they own that We don't own that guys And Powell sold that

**Speaker 44:** How did that happen?

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Powell So that wouldn't happen with this, would it? No, no, no, because we didn't sell anything to that As long as I'm on this board, I'm not selling another piece of land to a natural forest

As for motor vehicle management including motorized trail use and maintenance shall be consistent with state laws

**Speaker 20:** All motor vehicles using forest trails shall be state safety and registration requirements and other state laws Forest trails

**Speaker 21:** Right

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** And you know even our bylaw says When you ride ATV on our roads You have to abide by all these rules It's not Like the The sheriffs and the wardens are up there giving tickets out We can't say Well everybody can ride with no helmets and no license We can't do that We have to follow a state law

**Speaker 20:** Can I make a suggestion Because we're going back and forth back and forth What they want is something Permission should be in writing your document And tell me when you know us Which we can do And we are looking at long term multi year Commitment to the public area After these connections are open to the public Then we look at the next steps Then bring it up And that's the next step So my suggestion would be If you wishy washy Don't know where we're going Because we don't really know the background Dave Thomas This part of the road And it's currently this But if we decide to change it to the legal trail It would still conform to the same things We've already put

**Speaker 42:** That's kind of what we've got

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** We already have that But that's I have no problem With you guys drawing up a letter To the national force So they can get you riding But that doesn't address The concern of the town To me the concern of the town is We're supposed to be maintaining this road Minimally maintaining it It's almost impossible to maintain it as it is We definitely Almost impossible And we definitely don't have the money or man power Why are we waiting Why can't we do exactly what you just said But instead of using the word class 4 road Use trail And if it's ever changed back to class 4 road It will be the same Piece of land And you can draw that up and show it to the board I wouldn't have a problem with that Well I don't care Like I said you can draw a path

**Speaker 14:** Allow the club to use that right of way That .3 miles of right of way for a connector For their trail That's all you got to say it's our right of way

**Speaker 28:** The board has to open up the road That section of road They already did

**Speaker 14:** Just like with snowmobiles They already did though They did

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** We did that a year ago What I would like to do is I hate to say this But it is It will change the language If we do change this to a trail Which I'm 90% sure That's what I want to do If we do change it to a trail We have to go back to that Motion that I made About the class 4 roads And change that language That class 4 and trails And trails

**Speaker 39:** Are accessible

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Are trails already accessible For ATVs

**Speaker 14:** Nothing said Well we have These are town trails

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Not someone's backyard

**Speaker 14:** I truly believe Just for their part of it We just have to write a letter of support We support This Using this You brought that up

And used the word right of way

**Speaker 14:** I have no problem That should Do what that is You sign a letter of support Or whatever it is

**Speaker 17:** We can kick this around quite a bit If we want to wait until next week

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I'm fine with that You guys can show me what you want I'll put that in a minute As long as we agree with it

**Speaker 14:** I can tell you It took me a long time To look through that whole chapter Feel free to reach out To Martina And have her show me the state statute I think she was Confusing

**Speaker 45:** I couldn't find

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Anything in there It just said the town It just says Town What I don't want to do Town trails are not considered highways

**Speaker 14:** Well VRCT actually has a little blurb online About it too We get a lot of advice from them

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I'd like to table this to the next meeting And put it on the agenda Keep it open We don't have to have another site review Table it for the next meeting Anybody wants to prove Dave's Question Have any Concerns about it And then you can draw that letter Or whatever wording you would like us to put in In a minute So we can read it Make sure we're agreeing on it Put it in a minute

**Speaker 38:** Satisfy both parties

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Go from there I second that We did it Not even on the agenda

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Anything else

**Speaker 27:** I'm going to say On your road conditions

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** It sure is That's as far down as we got We went from hearing of visitors down to road conditions Back up to reading and approval Because of Carol

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I don't come that often Anything else Dave Recycling Anything else on recycling John did mention last time The steel container

**Speaker 14:** Yeah

**Speaker 1:** It's like overflowing On the sides

**Speaker 14:** Actually I picked it up today And crushed it all And inserted it I left them a message Who does that for

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I think the recycling area

**Speaker 23:** Is looking neater

**Speaker 14:** At some point I want you to look at that recycling center Because I have an idea That would help with the maintenance In the wintertime And I think would benefit the operators Because currently there's no electric Or heat or anything in our little shed And I believe if we move it To the other side of the recycling center There's a hole there That we use to run electric For the incinerator And then that would also Give us more room on the other side So that we could get in between Each dumpster in the wintertime To be pushing snow Instead of shoveling

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** When we have to The only thing I have with that There's a lot of people that drive in there People are going to be crossing over From the dumpsters over to the shed And

**Speaker 12:** They cross over to their cars anyway

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Most of the cars are on The compactor side There is some over there But I think there would be more Foot traffic And that's the only thing I'm concerned about

**Speaker 14:** In the wintertime It's a struggle sometimes for us to get that recycling center When we're having a storm And we've got to plow it out And then shovel in between all this stuff It's hard

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I think over there It does make sense with power

**Speaker 14:** When I was 29 I was more of a superman I always go over

**Speaker 12:** To where the people are 99% of the time Unless it's hailing But I mean I go over there And I can make sure that they don't have to walk over

**Speaker 14:** And then they would have The possibility of putting some heat Or something in there We've got to keep these guys working somehow Wintertime is pretty brutal up there

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I don't I don't see why You even have to ask the board Whoever is in charge of that recycling I appreciate you asking But if you think there's something better I mean We don't tell you how to manage the inside of a garage

**Speaker 39:** So if you want

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** It's a change

**Speaker 23:** That was just my concern

**Speaker 14:** Getting your thoughts too is important I understand your concern

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** People crossing back and forth

**Speaker 46:** I can run over there

**Speaker 25:** And make sure they know

**Speaker 14:** I think it's kind of chaotic anyway It is chaotic

**Speaker 23:** It is very bad

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Well it's the place to be

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** It is Okay Nothing else under recycling Emergency management

**Speaker 47:** Sorry to make you wait

**Speaker 48:** I just wanted to let the board know That I've registered to Take the Conference Vermont Emergency Preparedness Conference In September for two days So I'll be going out to Lake Morgue To learn more about emergency management Try and network a little bit up there Try and do this job better I just figured I'd let you guys know That's what I've registered to do I'll be up there September 9th Or 10th or 11th

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Is there money There is money in the budget for that I believe for training

**Speaker 48:** Okay I'll give you guys a report Check with Lori

**Speaker 2:** Is there any cost to sign up

**Speaker 48:** The The Conference is free Breakfast and lunch is free I've got a hotel room overnight Because I'm not going to travel back and forth The morning of the 1st I'll come back the 2nd And then dinner We'll figure it out I just want to let you guys know That I'm going to do this And try to Learn the job And network with the people Dealing with all kinds of problems In the middle of the state I think I'll learn a lot from that Awesome Other than that I've got nothing

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Thank you Bob Discussion Set tax rate for 2024 I don't want to come to that argument

**Speaker 7:** Okay

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I've got to cover a few things

**Speaker 7:** Thank you Bill Have a good night

So

**Speaker 2:** We should have a sheet that looks like this And If you want me to walk through What I did The articles that were voted in At our Marchtown meeting That's all the way So The top portion Are the articles related to Town funds Our budget Raising money for the cemetery The library The fire department And then the handful of the little Social service articles Brock Southwestern Council on Aging Those things We Subtract The town receipts That we anticipate Getting throughout the year We also Reduce that amount by The 25% of the town fund balance used The full usable Fund balance That the auditors determined For this year 142,945 So 25% of that Is 35,700 So The town needs to raise 352,648 And then we look at the highway The highway budget that was passed The article To Increase the highway equipment fund By 40,000 We subtract The anticipated highway receipts Which is low this year Because the state Paid the highway aid early Because of the fine the year before Um And then we add a deficit For its fund balance So that's why there's a zero So the highway funds That we need to raise Are 631,922 Which brings The total amount for taxes That we will need Anticipated 984,570 Our grand list This year After the reappraisal 1,692,584 Last year's grand list Was 994,000 So It did go up significantly With the reappraisal Um So our proposed town tax rate Is much lower And our proposed highway rate Also much lower So I would like you guys To approve a town tax rate Of .2084 On the right If you look at last year's rate It was .3731 So a lot less Um our highway rate I would like you guys To approve .3733 this year Last year it was .5751 And then the Um Homestead and the Non-homestead rate They're set by the state anyways So it's more of an acceptance Than approval

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** It's unconstitutional

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I make a motion to Set the tax rates

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** As proposed

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** All in favor

**Speaker 39:** Aye

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I just want to make one note That the homestead That the school rate Is still less this year But the school rate Will take effect next year Because our grand list This year April 1st Was a new appraisal for the town And We will not Pay that figure

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Until next year Well until after July

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** So they have to pay on the high rate

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** On the reappraised numbers Next year What's that The rate won't go down this year

**Speaker 49:** But neither does the

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** You just said the school rate won't go down

**Speaker 38:** Until following year right

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** No the school rate is lower now It's lower now but it's going to go up

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I'm pretty sure next year Because everything else went down This 85 is going to go up Because it's going to be based on our new Evaluation That's my opinion But I'm looking in the crystal ball I'm looking in the crystal ball It seems to me

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Ours went down dramatically The highways went down dramatically Theirs should have went down dramatically The rate The rate should have gone down Because the evaluation went up But the school doesn't

**Speaker 38:** Do the same math

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Typically that's what should happen The state's involved in their math

**Speaker 39:** They got no math

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Remember funny math

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Funny math

**Speaker 38:** It's not funny

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** That's the problem this isn't funny

**Speaker 38:** I just want to say that my tax bill

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Went up $500 This year

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** The rich people should start paying I'm in fixed income I'm a senior

**Speaker 2:** I'm in fixed income I can see because I had her look at my calculations Before finalizing them

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** And thank goodness she did Well it's better to See it before it goes out

**Speaker 2:** Yeah

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Second set of eyes are always best

**Speaker 50:** It's always good to have a second set

**Speaker 2:** This is the warrant Which I'd like to have you guys sign Which will allow me to Fill for those taxes

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** If our name's on here You don't have to send us a bill

**Speaker 2:** We should be exempt

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** We should be exempt Gotta walk up Hat trails Rollers Twist our ankle

Fall on culverts

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Fall on culverts Ride all the way to Bennington To look at Stamford property

**Speaker 51:** Yeah

**Speaker 48:** Turn around and come back

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** We looked at a camp Sucker Pond Road We gotta drive all the way to Bennington Natural Forest

**Speaker 1:** To block it off

**Speaker 32:** Has she ever given you a key

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** We're supposed to give a key to that gate Emergency management's Supposed to have a key

**Speaker 14:** There isn't even a gate Opposed to a guard rail crossing

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** She said I'll get you a key So I don't know

**Speaker 20:** Can you pull up any of those

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Sure Say hey you know

**Speaker 1:** I don't know if you got that key

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Yeah we want to go the slapboard gets our own side by side so we can go up and maintain you know evaluate not maintain

**Speaker 38:** evaluate okay um i'll set with that morning delinquent dog update any word from luke or how

**Speaker 2:** the dog's doing are we still calling me today he sounded awful he has an awful cold um so he's not here but he did say he has sent out all the the next set of notices to the remaining dog owners and what's there a half dozen yeah we're we only have a handful left yeah way ahead so nobody's breaking had anyone come in in the two weeks since the last meeting well maybe if he sent

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** this next step hopefully that's probably the ticket every year i would think tickets maybe but he isn't

**Speaker 2:** in for the tickets has he because well he hasn't come in but last year he took a handful and he did them all himself okay i know he said he sent out all the paperwork i i guess i didn't think to particularly ask him if they were tickets what kind of notices he sent out okay all right correspondence lori so um when we send out the tax bills we normally send out a little reminder from slapboard of all the things you want people to know and i don't know if you have any changes updates the other things

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** you want to say we discussed this last year i think i think it looks fine there and hopefully people would read it um is this on the website no it could be put there no doubt yeah it would be good somewhere you could put it in there the only thing i have number eight select board asks you to keep personal property out of highways right away which is approximately 25 feet from the center of the road so kurt this is a question for you why is the sign why are we saying the sign has to be 50 feet from that road this state highway state that's the state law that says 50. yeah well the highway right away

**Speaker 17:** ours is ours is our town setbacks 50 feet

**Speaker 52:** so we should technically ask for days right away different than a town setback yeah i mean when

**Speaker 17:** you're paid when you're placing the 25 feet from the center row that's basically 10 feet from the edge of the road the road's 15 feet wide so then you technically you can place your garbage hand

**Speaker 2:** 10 feet from the edge of your road is this like shrubbery is this like little things i mean

**Speaker 53:** we're not personal property permanent structure because that would have to be some examples

**Speaker 17:** of limited fences vehicles boats bushes boulders walls this is mainly just so when he's coming

**Speaker 1:** around he's not annihilated and everybody's stuck right mostly garbage containers i would

**Speaker 14:** do the garbage containers are what's starting to be an issue over the last few years for sure

**Speaker 17:** yeah i can see where you think it's confusing fences and signs one day a week you're assigned

**Speaker 14:** out there what happens typically is they put them out the day before

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** it's like uh tag sale signs uh you know stuff like that yeah it's just nailing just have them

**Speaker 34:** thrown back in the yard vegetables or firewood on the side don't put your foot but you're you're

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** what are you questioning no i'm just questioning i just happened to catch that but in our zoning bylaws it says minimum front yard 50 feet so what am i reading wrong that's for a permanent that's

**Speaker 17:** really good permanent

**Speaker 35:** structure you know 50 feet okay 50 feet from the center of the road to build they should be

**Speaker 14:** i mean we've got structures that are frankly on the wrong account and then this doesn't say

**Speaker 38:** i just wanted to make sure we had the same footage you know what i mean this says that 25

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** get your crap out of the way it doesn't say at 30 it's okay right center of the road if anyone

**Speaker 54:** ever but i've got to figure it out go ahead and tell them i mean on easter egg you're going to get

**Speaker 14:** a bigger price technically

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** well i just do i didn't want our language to be the same as in our zoning bylaws that and i just happened to catch it after all these years

**Speaker 48:** yeah before you put that over to the rest can we put a paragraph in there about the vt alert and ask the residents to sign up the vt alert it's on there is one right at the top i haven't seen that so that's great thank you i think it's on the back of the

**Speaker 17:** minutes all the time too isn't it yes i do try to put it on there yep it is thank you i appreciate

**Speaker 1:** that yeah i would just like to see it on the website i think that would be very informational

**Speaker 55:** everything's online now yeah i think laurie's going to put it on the website right i can put

**Speaker 2:** it on the website do you want to send out the email sign up again or are you worried about it

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** do you think a lot of people have signed up for it or i'll put it this way if it doesn't cost extra postage put it in the tax bill

**Speaker 1:** isn't that on the website too yeah i like orange writing yeah yeah do you have one in the door yeah i mean i don't want to waste some pulses i think the email and here at the office should be ample enough

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** safety line maybe they don't even read these anyway so you'll read the taxes just faint there i think motion to go with the tax bill insert as reviewed all in favor okay review recycling update

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** we do a lot of that last year too yep we already went through recycling it seems like we just did it it's not my least thing

**Speaker 56:** i know because you don't go so this is just it's a little bit early because

**Speaker 2:** our cycle ends october 31st but a lot of times we wait to the last minute and then we're under the gun we don't have time to really look at prices and look at things and there's just been a lot of talk about recycling so i didn't know if you wanted to start early mike did you find

**Speaker 39:** out about the uh air conditioners no he's out of town he's on like this long vacation

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** okay so he must be charging enough some beach somewhere so when he gets back so number four

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** can we wait till next meeting about number four are we taking these refrigerator freezer air

**Speaker 39:** conditioner dehumidifier i mean right now when we take them we're not we're losing money on

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** everything anyways but right now can we still get rid of all these things i was bringing them

**Speaker 14:** to the reach bro unless they tell me i can't but i haven't done it in a while but that's what i'm

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** saying so all these these these as long as we can get rid of them all i don't have a problem keeping it on there when we find out we find out i don't think we need to wait yeah i'm just

**Speaker 14:** they're so they got so many rules and laws for this stuff i don't want to tell you it's a good idea or a bad idea because they change and they change it like most of the stuff when i take it in it's supposed to be dated and it's supposed to be gone within so long if it's not we can get in trouble i mean and they change like i said they change this stuff so if i don't know if i got the

**Speaker 23:** most accurate info on something we don't take it we wanted to give them an option where to go and

**Speaker 39:** you were going to find out right and if they take it i would say just approve this and then

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** that down the road i don't i don't think he's going to take a refrigerator for less than 50

**Speaker 32:** dollars i just don't see that happening so maybe air commissioner isn't there a guy that you can

**Speaker 1:** hire that comes and discharge the coolant and then you can dispose of the unit mr um as it would be a piece of iron at that point but it doesn't have to figure out what they do those in cars that you have a license tag yeah and they come but didn't your relative do it at one time yeah it's probably cheaper to have a bunch from me and then ours is what that was i brought

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** three to north adams and they were all discharged and i don't have a license for discharging but they they were looped. They must have leaked that one time. Yeah. When you hit them with a hatchet, when you hit them with a hatchet, they tend to leak. They charged me. They didn't give me money though. I was not going to Athens. They charged me to get rid of them, but they didn't say. I don't think it's the same stuff as what it used to be. It ain't what it used to be.

**Speaker 17:** There was a guy I used to hire when I worked for the housing authority and come in and drain out 10, 15 of them at a time. Go through a lot of refrigerators. Well, I guess that's expensive, but they save it. It's good stuff.

**Speaker 39:** I guess they save it for you.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Like Dave said, we can't keep them on site for too long.

**Speaker 14:** Or to make my mind go do. Let's leave number four until we find out. Oh yeah. I mean, there's just so many rules and there's so many things.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** The other one was we talked about batteries and we said at one of the previous meetings that we will bring batteries to the recycling area. Should tape them. What should we tape them with? Electrical tape? Black electrical. Are you guys caught up on batteries now? Do you

**Speaker 13:** keep up with them? Yeah, pretty much

**Speaker 12:** we are. I have three quarters of a box.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** To do or full?

**Speaker 12:** Three quarters full and then I can put some more in it.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Yeah, okay. Do you want to put that in that we want them taped or do we still want the recycling crew to tape them? I think if we tell them we want them taped they're going to come in with

**Speaker 2:** and it's supposed to be taped with black electrical tape.

**Speaker 12:** Maybe if somebody here and there doesn't do it, a couple of them we can do it. It would be a big help because we don't we're pretty busy usually.

**Speaker 14:** I'll bring them back and tell them to do it. You do it a couple of times.

**Speaker 15:** We don't accept them.

**Speaker 14:** Next time we'll do it.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** We don't accept them if you don't tape them. You charge for untapped batteries.

**Speaker 30:** Anybody that's recycling or small batteries,

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I can't see them complaining about putting tape on it because that's a person that really cares about recycling. You can't do it. Yeah, I mean, I'm just saying that's someone that cares about recycling because personally, I would not sit there and take my batteries. I bring them down and throw them in the dumpster. You know, I mean, it's just honestly, that's a person that looks and goes, boy, I'm going to make sure that I'm recycling everything. I think if you told them to tape it, they'd be fine with it.

**Speaker 13:** So, we should change that sentence that batteries,

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** if you're bringing batteries to the recycling area, be sure the ends, both ends are taped with black electrical tape. Well, it's just the positive end. Oh, just the positive end. Okay. Can you remember that, Lori?

**Speaker 2:** Should we say household batteries? Because, yeah, I mean, is this like drill and tool batteries or car batteries or there's just car batteries?

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Drill batteries.

**Speaker 14:** Drill batteries. Drill batteries. Drill batteries. Disposable ones. Yeah. Disposable alkaline or whatever the new ones are, yeah.

**Speaker 2:** So, but what we're talking about here is just household batteries.

**Speaker 14:** Disposable. Car batteries, you get money for.

**Speaker 2:** Yeah.

**Speaker 1:** Yeah. The other batteries up there, they're actually worth more as a core towards a new one than they are scrapping, so. Right.

**Speaker 34:** Yeah. Because the state gives them money to bring back to everything.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** So, should we approve this as revised?

**Speaker 12:** I wanted to say one thing about recycling, though. It's getting towards the end, and I don't know if it would make it easier on Lori if we had some tickets there to sell. It's up to you. I don't care .

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I think we're going to stay like we're doing right now, because if you read your auditor's report, I think it's in there. I think it's in there, but it did speak to Lori and I that we should not be selling stuff.

**Speaker 55:** This was this thing you're talking about.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you want to limit the amount of cash that's being handled as a film. Right.

**Speaker 55:** The freighter you're going to take home.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Yeah. And if you want to read the audit report, it's going around.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** My father went to Sarapoga Racetrack. You cannot buy a hot sausage grinder with cash. No. You have to use a crutch. Yeah, we can't use that. Can't use that. People are taking money.

**Speaker 14:** Lots of state markets are charging right now, because they don't have cash. What type of bottle of water? I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know what you're talking about. Try to run a credit card machine in the middle.

**Speaker 33:** I've read some of those.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Yes, the one I gave you, too.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** They have reverse credit card machines. The one I gave them to you already. You put your cash in the machine, they give you the credit card, then you go buy a hot sausage. Because that's saving environmentally. The tickets are going to be exploited. It's nothing to do with environmental guidance. People are going to be going to the dumpster. So they know what you're spending, so they get cash.

**Speaker 1:** You have to turn them away to go.

**Speaker 34:** They have to come down here and buy it.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Yeah, so there's going to be a stash,

**Speaker 1:** because she's not open on a stash.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** No, they've been used to coming to here.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Plus, they can do it through mail.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** You just put it in the machine now, and you load your credit card. And when you win a casino, it gets back on your credit card. You go back and play. Yeah, the problem is, though,

**Speaker 1:** every time you swipe your card, it's like 30% tip, 60% tip.

**Speaker 34:** When they go all to the casino,

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** it's the same way. It's all casinos are trying to do that. It's like an off-tipping cash. Yeah. So I've got a dollar on me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They want a piece of the pie. They want a piece of the pie, and they want to control you. They can turn you on or shut you off by doing that. No tax on tips. I mean, it's not bad. No tax on tips. No tax on tips. No matter who wins now. Tipping's got to be great. No matter who wins, no tax on tips. That's a good thing. It's something we've got to look forward to. It was initial. Yeah.

**Speaker 28:** And not the check.

**Speaker 32:** Is that what I'm supposed to do?

**Speaker 57:** Yeah.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Let's not worry about the war. We're not getting taxed on tips.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Let me see about the mic here.

**Speaker 2:** Yeah.

**Speaker 50:** OK.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** All business, Laurie.

**Speaker 2:** Well, I have one more correspondence. OK. A straggler uniform municipal excess weight permit from Beacon Sales Acquisition.

**Speaker 50:** Who's Beacon Sales?

**Speaker 2:** I don't know. They're from Jasper, Indiana.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Take their money.

**Speaker 56:** Take their money.

**Speaker 2:** They got the insurance form? Yeah. Yeah. I got it.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Beacon Sales.

**Speaker 2:** Yeah. I don't know if it's one of them houses. Crazy. Yeah. I don't know what they do.

**Speaker 1:** What is it? $10? I don't know. Yeah. Can we raise it to $20? No. No? That's state. All right. $10 seems cheap. Yeah.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** That's because they're not getting any of it, are they? No. Just the pound gets the half. The state was getting it at $50.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** They would have upped it. It's so they can drive over our road. Yeah. But we put a stipulation in there. They can't go if it's muddy. They post the road.

**Speaker 1:** You got a sign somewhere on there or is that it? Yes, I did. I'll just see if there's anyone that needs to do it. I have some old business or I don't know. Maybe it's new business. The sign. Oh, that's definitely not old. So I was given a quote for the sign with installation. It was $850. There's a few people in town that want to donate. They want to make money towards it. I was curious how we should handle the funds. Is it something we should have a little reset like an account up for and give her the money and have her pay this guy or is it something I just want to go about the proper way? And then put some stakes out there maybe so we can figure out where exactly it's going to go. And where is it supposed to be? You're saying 50 feet off the road?

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** But we have to still go through the permit. That's the process.

**Speaker 1:** Correct. So make sure we do everything right. But that's, you know, that's what I was quoted for the sign. And it's a start, I guess. And they just want to figure out.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I have no problem with the funds. That's easy. So whatever way you want. Yeah. $800, I'll donate.

**Speaker 1:** I just want them to make sure it gets handled correctly is all. Yeah. So we should probably go for the permit. Permit.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I think we should do the permit. Yeah.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Go for it.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Give her the, get the permit form. We'll fill it out with the numbers. Do we need a motion?

**Speaker 58:** Yeah.

**Speaker 17:** Motion to file for a permit for the new sign. Whatever the dimensions are.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Yeah. I think you can copy the old. Laurie's got a copy of the old one. Just change, copy it.

**Speaker 55:** Yeah, I'll second it.

**Speaker 1:** And it's just, it's going to follow the.

**Speaker 55:** You were here last time.

**Speaker 1:** You approved it.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** You saw the sign last time.

**Speaker 1:** Yeah, I was owning bottles.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** What's the material? Wood, he said.

**Speaker 1:** It's going to be cedar, cedar sign and then black lettering. I mean, it's still open for, you know, adjustments. But, you know, we need to think about something that's going to be out in the weather, long term, non-maintenance wise. What are you looking for, Sheila? What do you, what color do you want?

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Well, I thought we voted on green with yellow. We didn't vote on any color.

**Speaker 1:** We didn't pick any colors.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Oh, I thought you did.

**Speaker 1:** Yeah.

**Speaker 59:** Green with yellow.

**Speaker 1:** I think we wanted to stick to something that's going to be. Right now, we're looking for. Weather resistant.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** We'll order it in motion with a second. All in favor? Aye.

**Speaker 1:** Well, it meets the bylaws fine. That's the most important thing, I believe. Green and yellow will make your taxes go up $100. I want the signed issue done before I die. Well, I would just like to see it up before the beginning of school year. That's what I want. That's right.

**Speaker 28:** That's right.

**Speaker 1:** What's your friend's name, Judy? Judy has now entered the signed license. Yeah, we're going to the bus driver's office. Yeah, you're doing awesome. Awesome. So, how do we want to handle the funds for the? I mean, if you want to run it through her, I think that's probably the best way.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** So, people say, where did the money go?

**Speaker 1:** If someone wants to donate money, just go see Lori. Sure. But we're looking to raise $850.

**Speaker 17:** And then you just cut it off when you get the $850?

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Yep. Just say thank you. Thank you. We're already done. We're good.

**Speaker 2:** We're good.

**Speaker 14:** Don't let it go over. Stop at $850. Unless you want to buy beer for her. Well, you have to sign it. You have to sign it. You want to tell somebody that's already gone? Champagne bottle.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Our Christmas is over. Sheila. Boom. All right. What else? Old business, Lori.

**Speaker 50:** Do you guys want to just look at the audit at your leisure, or do you want to just look

**Speaker 2:** at the audit at your leisure? Do you want me to highlight some of the recommendations he had? I don't know. Now, you passed it around. They signed it.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Yeah. They signed it.

**Speaker 33:** I briefed her.

**Speaker 1:** I put a check out. Yeah. I briefed her. I did. I briefed her on the recycling thing, worried about the money at the recycling center. Yeah. So, Kim.

**Speaker 2:** Right. They want to make sure we have a good way to make sure all money received at the recycling center comes to me. I think we have receipts that are all numbered. I track all the numbers. Everything is. Okay. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. You want to know if they're doing good there? I think that works out well. One of the things they wanted me to change is any time I put a journal entry in the computer, they want me to document why I'm doing the journal entry, and they want me to have you see it. So I think what I'll do is when you guys get the bank statement reconciliation report, I'll just include all of the journal entries that needed to be included in the check book and I'll put them in the check book. be done and that way you guys can stay on top of that one of their recommendations is that the library funds be merged in with the town funds and i did go to one of their library trustee meetings and talk to them about that they recommended we have like 10 different little funds for every thing and they'd like to see everything merged into one fund i met with two different banks to discuss that the bank really didn't think that was the best idea they feel like operating funds should be kept here and saving funds really should be kept here and an account where you can really maximize your savings the auditor's thought was if it's all one big pot then we probably don't have to borrow in index anticipation of taxes every year because

**Speaker 60:** all the money is there where what's the difference if we have two accounts with one account the money

**Speaker 2:** is either there or it's not well i have a a money market account and then the operating account so the operating account is small and then the money market sits here and i can't take the money out but then we have a fire department account and the future needs fund and you have the you know the invested funds and all these other funds dave's highway funds so there's you know right fifty thousand here a hundred thousand years

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** but if we have we know what our operating expense is and let's just say it's five hundred thousand dollars and we keep six hundred thousand and we have the cushion anything extra the bank's right put it in the money markets and make money with your money we just it's a we just did this at the church we had all these accounts and you can't you can't take it and put it in these money markets at five percent interest right now well that's good money when you're putting five hundred thousand dollars right so i think the bank's right but you don't want to get to the point where you're operating expenses you're going back to that money market and getting penalized to take out so you have to kind of know where your cushion is that make sense yeah

**Speaker 2:** yeah it's yeah i guess it takes some more thinking of what is really best for the town

**Speaker 56:** i mean it's a recommendation right that's right it's a recommendation and that's what i think we

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** should do is look at it but don't worry about those people but look at it as a town and say if we're making if we can make money on our own money that's the best thing for the town if we can't which we might not have in savings who knows you know so you know it might be this operating money it's not savings it's never going to stay there long enough to be a savings you know but if we do have some and continue to do that that's my thought yeah well

**Speaker 2:** when you look at the town report i have like three pages of various accounts you know and they're all separate accounts so i can't unless i pull from each different account so that i have enough money

**Speaker 60:** to run the town i mean if it takes you more time than it's worth it's not worth it either

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** if it's bogging you down to the point where

**Speaker 2:** you're saving nothing you know yeah and his thought is i'm reconciling like 12 different accounts as opposed to just reconciling one i mean my time and energy to deal with all those little accounts right you know it's something to think about but you know the banks have a different viewpoint of putting all your eggs in one basket isn't always bad right so yeah

**Speaker 1:** i don't know maybe some things make sense to put together and other things

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** i think you should it's kind of what you think too i mean if you look and say okay like like you said there's going to be some accounts you just don't say isn't it going to be harder if you want it that's all in one basket what did the library say when you didn't ask them

**Speaker 61:** about this did they think it was a good idea but they're okay with it um they use a debit card

**Speaker 2:** um so that you know when they have their ice cream socials they can just run down to walmart and yeah buy what they need to buy and it's important for them to continue to have that purchasing power both banks said debit card no way that's a risk that you're opening your whole funds to that debit card but a credit card would be fine which i think would serve the library's purpose

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** that's one thing that i was going to recommend down the road is like dave goes down to these places and i don't know if you have accounts at every place but accounts make zero money so you want to have your parents certainly if you're goddamn convenient because zero money you have your accounts at your business россia not zero but if they're convenient but they make zero money i have a lot of accounts in my business adam's community set me up with a business credit card there's a limit so we can limit him to whatever that limit is that we told him he can spend anyway so we say factory editor at the auto places and you ought to think about the cost right now this is it that's i'm gonna give you a common idea as i klassie talking to these guys the auto places and you and there's different programs so you could like I have one for entertainment you go out to dinner so if I take a client out to dinner I get three percent of my money and they're charging me no money for using it unless I don't pay it which you just pay it on time all the time which is easy but you're talking three percent every time you go down you buy something or even if it's one percent it adds up huge we should start looking at that for especially for Dave he does have his phone I have one I think it's got a thousand do you have the cash back yeah you gotta look at that there's a lot of them out there and there's some real good deals especially fuel fuel is huge you know you're gonna I mean I know you guys got a thing here but if you pay it with a credit card it doesn't matter if you get it delivered here or you gotta go downtown to do it like I Wes oil I pay them with my credit card I get three percent you West up they give me a 10% discount for paying early and I get three percent on my credit card

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** to me that makes sense but I did notice too Dave that your credit card slips are matching up your slips you're finding your slips or keeping your slips yeah the auditors the auditors have recommended that they have to match and I noticed that most of them are there now well most of them

**Speaker 14:** are emailed now yeah yeah so I can't take credit for that yeah well even if you have a bag in your vehicle yeah it's hard I mean you

**Speaker 23:** have to yeah sometimes I end up in my pocket and you know I don't do laundry so they're gone and yeah so what else do we have I guess on the banks just see how it works out yeah I think if you see that you can do things you don't have to jump at it right away

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** real

**Speaker 2:** and John asked how do you keep

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** track of it well when she runs it through the computer she says library fund I mean it's

**Speaker 1:** It's like a quick book so

**Speaker 2:** So we have a powerful fund accounting system which is saud in order to be able to track multiple different funds and that's what the accountant said if youre not utilizing the system you're doing all the work with all these little funds that the system itself could be doing for you because it has the ability, if we're just not utilizing the software

**Speaker 56:** right okay what else do you have on the audit lori um that's that's how i know

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** okay they did say the town does not have a fraud policy in place recommendation recommend documentation of internal control systems that takes a lot of time um your accounting procedure manual you have some of that yeah and review of invoices the town school district bills for the town but they're both it's better now

**Speaker 2:** no they have not billed me for six months so well we're in august so

**Speaker 56:** maybe it'll get better they said i want you back with no supporting documents and i asked for it

**Speaker 2:** i'm not getting it

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** i want you back in the school board show because i said i want you back in the school board because nothing went by you without a slip and everything okay not the way it is now all right anything else all business lori not for me no uh i have dv fiber anybody apply for okay there's money out there in application if anybody wants to apply for okay there's money out there in application if anybody wants to apply for financial aid to hook up their dv fiber lori has the applications um anything else for old business guys

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** just uh i'm sorry go ahead dude just real quick uh state troopers have made a couple more visits to town uh last night i was coming back from wilmington and they weren't in our town they're right on the line here the guy the guy is uh he lives up the road so he's putting some time inside what people say there's no law enforcement there's here fueling up at romance just he was in town yesterday we saw him yeah a matter of fact i think i've been seeing him more than i've seen the sheriff when we had a yeah actual contact

**Speaker 14:** i brought up uh the last meetings i was at about the roof on the garage oh yes yes and i got two quotes i guess you could call them one of them i had quoted with insulation um and that was 82 thousand four hundred fifteen dollars for a new roof with three inches of insulation and the other one was just for a true down metal roof 38 000 we did have i did have my energy audit finally um a couple guys showed up and dariff who was working on our mitigation plan came down also as far as i know there's no funding to do a lot of work funding available yet but they have all the information so that funding ever becomes available we could apply mm-hmm well that's kind of one of them things where I feel like you really need to do the roof on the garage is the roof insulated now there is some insulation there now but it's you know I was like the rest of the garage the structure of the garage itself is a good shape if we keep a roof on it I mean you can see where it's leaking I'm just starting to rustle the beams so it's kind of what I mean after it sooner than later so I think I mean it's been leaking for a while it's I had one point I had somebody go around and caulk all the screws but that's been a few years and now that you know the Sun expands and contracts those things and it's back to leaking I mean it's not pouring in there but definitely and it's all rusting

**Speaker 1:** away pretty bad this is all like our company's stuff right you can use for the

**Speaker 33:** roof we said we could use that we wanted to so you see to figure out if you want

**Speaker 62:** a insulated roof or an insulator yeah I think that at this point we could go

**Speaker 14:** with the non-insulated and then when there's funding to install it yeah energy efficiency in there do that at this point it'd be a waste to spend all that money and then two years down the road you haven't ran in front of me where we could just get it done

**Speaker 1:** you were able to keep it relatively you obviously needed insulation for the winter yes are you able to keep it heated no no problem or no no not at all

**Speaker 14:** I mean I keep the gas on a 40 we were on the wood fire it's better than it used to be but not you know this doesn't work it's better than it used to be but not you know this doesn't work it doesn't work it's better than it used to be but not you know this doesn't work

**Speaker 63:** it doesn't work it's better than it used to be but not you know this doesn't work

**Speaker 14:** well they are but there it's so under I mean there's just over the years you know you get rips in it and so it's fallen and it's it needs to be all redone and you know they suggested reinstalling the whole building and putting up you know some kind of wood like plywood or something on the walls protect it and help you know it just was the town used the money it had at the time to do what they could you know wasn't really

**Speaker 24:** Just out of curiosity, how close is the building to the river?

**Speaker 17:** 25, 30 feet. Close. It's close.

**Speaker 14:** Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's one of them things that we've talked about other options for the future, and I think we should continue looking into that kind of stuff. But for now, we really can't let the building go. That's why I was trying to go with the cheapest option. I mean, obviously we could bid it out. You may get it cheaper. But these are two different companies. Well, they're insulation. Well, one guy, I didn't bother with the insulating bit, and then I figured I might need an estimate for buying a grant. And I couldn't get anybody even to show up at first, so I was calling different companies. And then... They both showed up pretty much on the same day after weeks.

**Speaker 26:** So...

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Should we have David go ahead with the non-insulated roof? Use the ARPA money for that?

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Who's doing it?

**Speaker 14:** So the Vermont Roofing gave me the quote on the insulated, and Stevens Roofing out of Woodford gave me the quote on just the screw-down metal.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Who's Stevens Roofing?

**Speaker 14:** They're off of Route 9 in Woodford. I tried to get somebody local that does metal roofing. Right. That was... I don't know anybody personally that does it in town. If they do, we'll reach out to the town. But this person actually showed up pretty quick compared to everybody else. I called three different people.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** About six, seven years ago, I was on the Finance Committee for the Church of North Adams, and they needed four years to pull the trigger on doing a roof. It went from a quarter million to $400,000. And it's a rubber roof. You know, it wasn't a steel roof. But still, you've heard my position on waiting on every single thing we've ever talked about. I have still... Yep, the seed prices go down. Right. They always go up. So... $38,000. We had the money, and I don't see a problem with that. The one problem I do have is it's an estimate. How much more is in your process?

**Speaker 14:** Yeah, well, I don't know if it was an estimate. That's... Is that a guarantee? Well, he didn't... He sent me an email. This one's in writing for the insulated one. The other guy sent me a text. So I could have him put that... That was ballpark. Yeah. You know, I could have him put it in an email.

**Speaker 1:** Why don't you see if Vermont would give you a price with no insulation, and then have that other guy give you one in writing. For one with no insulation or no seed. Just so there's...

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Yep. Good. Good idea. Yeah.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Good idea. I mean, that's not a lot of money for a tin roof, believe it or not.

**Speaker 14:** For that size roof, I didn't think it sounded horrible.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I put a rubber roof on my shop about 10 years ago, $68,000 for 4,000 square foot.

**Speaker 14:** That's a pretty big garage up there, so...

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Yeah.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Okay. All right. Any other questions? We've got a new business, Lori. What are you going to say about CDL? Just the procedure. I do want to talk about the CDL procedure. It used to be that we had a mobile unit. Like, the CDL drivers are under random testing. And every quarter, VLCT, our insurance company, we're in a pool. So, randomly, our guys get drawn occasionally and have to be tested. So, that's what we're doing.

**Speaker 2:** Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. you have to drive up to Bennington Hospital now and get tested up there. So now our guys are out an hour up, probably an hour up there, an hour back. I mean, they lose half a day because our testing unit is short-staffed. And it's fine if you're a company in Bennington and you can scoot over on your lunch hour, but this is going to have a huge impact on their daily schedule. I mean, sometimes they get picked three-quarters out of four.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** You don't have the choice. They tell you, go get tested.

**Speaker 14:** Yeah.

**Speaker 2:** They tell you.

**Speaker 14:** It's just in the wintertime, and that's kind of ridiculous. They call me and tell me I've got to go, and it's just hard.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** But the other thing, too, is if Dave or Mike are on a culvert job, the road is open and the appointment happens to be tomorrow where you plan to have equipment there and open the road. I don't think that's fair. I think we should push back. How much time do they have?

**Speaker 14:** How much time do they give you when they tell you that? I don't know. Usually, Laurie tells me the day before to be at the garage at a certain time. Yeah.

**Speaker 2:** They'll call me up, like, on a Monday and try to schedule it for Tuesday or Wednesday the latest. So there really isn't any warning. And, you know, it's one thing if it's at the garage.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** How do you want to push back?

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I think we should let the LCT that this is inconvenience, and they only have two. We don't want to go there.

**Speaker 1:** Yeah. Well, you should. Say we're limited to two people, man, crew, and town, and we are a significant distance from where the testing facility is. Right. So if you're short-staffed, the people who should be driving to the Bennington Hospital should be the companies that are closest, and then send them out here. I don't know how you can get that in professional writing.

**Speaker 20:** If you set this up with the millionaire's facility, they're giving you authorization, all you have to do is set it up. And then, like, North Adams. North Adams? Yeah. Why are you saying Bennington?

**Speaker 2:** Because they set up the authorization. They mailed me the forms and say Southwestern Vermont. That's right. Because it's Vermont. Yeah. I've had to go over to the Bennington Hospital before.

**Speaker 20:** You need to ask them if it's applicable. You need authorization if you set up an authorization. You call North Adams to say, okay, if we want to have Stamford v. Board or whatever, go here and get authorized because Bennington, and explain that. And you set that up with them, you can draw that up. I've done this with employment all the time.

**Speaker 14:** Either way, it's ridiculous in the wintertime. Right. Or realistically. It doesn't address the whole problem. That's their problem, not ours. Right. As far as I'm concerned. You're short-staffed, so am I. Right. Like, you've got to do your job, I've got to do mine. Right.

**Speaker 15:** I like the way John said it.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** This is not feasible for the town of Stamford. We have two people that can't take that time. Right. You know, please put us on a priority list and the closer people can go to the hospital or facility where they're supposed to go.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Because I think if we go to North Adams or if we go to Bennington this one time, they're going to say, hey, you did it before.

**Speaker 1:** Who pays for that? Who pays for those people to come down here to do that?

**Speaker 63:** Our insurance.

**Speaker 14:** It's out of our insurance.

**Speaker 1:** Well, then make them come down and take care of us. We're not going to.

**Speaker 14:** I mean, they've made me drive up to Woodford before. I've had to drive up to Woodford.

**Speaker 15:** If they don't have time to come down and test you, they don't have time to come down and shut you down either.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Yeah.

**Speaker 14:** They don't want to come here, is the thing. Yeah. They don't want to come to Stamford or too far out of the loop. It's a nice ride.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Anything else on your new business? All right. Mike, you wanted to make a motion to go?

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Yeah, a motion to go on an executive session.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** For contract?

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Contract.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Possible contract?

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Second.

All in favor?

**Speaker 39:** Yeah.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I'm not the A.R.

I see it, Carol. Take care. I suggest where you live and where you're going to see it. Can we shut all your neighbors down?

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Is there a red button here? I don't know. Sorry, how do you shut that thing on? Lori? Smash it. How do you shut this off? Are you putting the shit up for Trevor to stay in? Hey, I was, uh...

**Speaker 20:** The square.