---
title: "Stamford Planning Commission — July 1, 2024"
date: 2024-07-01
board: planning-commission
meeting_id: 2024-07-01_regular
session: regular
duration_min: 92
audio: https://townofstamfordvermont.org/mediaItems/Planning%20Commission%20mtg%202024-7-1.MP3
audio_source: town local
minutes: https://townofstamfordvermont.org/mediaItems/Planning%20Com%20Minutes%202024-7-1.pdf
minutes_pending: false
present: [Daniel Potvin, Alden Finney, Peter Greenbush, Kurt Gamari, Lisa Gramlin, Sheila Lawrence, David Saldo]
absent: [Maura Hawkins]
transcribed: 2026-10-21 (faster-whisper large-v3, CUDA; names corrected per data/name_fixes.json)
diarization: pyannote/speaker-diarization-3.1 (automated; cluster labels may over-split a single voice; unattributed paragraphs have no reliable speaker)
---

# Stamford Planning Commission — July 1, 2024

**Session:** Regular · **Duration:** 92 min · [Audio](https://townofstamfordvermont.org/mediaItems/Planning%20Commission%20mtg%202024-7-1.MP3) · [Minutes](https://townofstamfordvermont.org/mediaItems/Planning%20Com%20Minutes%202024-7-1.pdf)

**Present:** Daniel Potvin, Alden Finney, Peter Greenbush, Kurt Gamari, Lisa Gramlin, Sheila Lawrence, David Saldo
**Absent:** Maura Hawkins

---
**Speaker 1:** One nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Alright, welcome to the meeting of the Stamford Planning Commission. If you have a matter to discuss that is not included on the agenda, you may do so by addressing the chairperson, instead of stating your name and address.

**Speaker 2:** Pat?

**Speaker 1:** Okay.

**Speaker 3:** I do.

**Speaker 1:** You do.

**Speaker 3:** I do. Okay.

**Speaker 2:** So.

**Speaker 1:** You're addressing me, right?

**Speaker 2:** I'm addressing you.

**Speaker 1:** No, no, no, I'm not a stickler. I just never read this before. Right. So you're addressing me.

**Speaker 2:** I am. So the Southboard is working on, well, they're considering declassifying the last 43 miles of county road from the National Forest Sucker Foundation. Okay. They're considering going from the Class 4 section that it is down to a legal trail. They've scheduled a site visit and a public hearing, and as Planning Commission, you guys received notice of that. Okay. So the site visit, August 1st.

**Speaker 1:** Guns of August. Can you read that book? What is it? It's called Guns of August. Oh. Guns of August.

**Speaker 4:** So special, doing it for the area.

**Speaker 5:** What was the rationale? I didn't see anything on it.

**Speaker 1:** I haven't seen anything yet.

**Speaker 2:** The ATV people came with the thought that they're trying to connect the Sucker Pond Trail over to Connell Trails. Okay. But there's a hole in the middle, so by making this park just a legal trail, we don't have to worry about maintaining it, because that is the only way it can go through. I mean, it's so bad now, it's just being-

**Speaker 1:** Is that called, what they call the Sippy Hole? No.

**Speaker 2:** Even beyond that.

**Speaker 1:** No, that's on Whiskey Ranch. Yeah. Okay.

**Speaker 6:** It's just basically from the power lines- From the power lines to Praha.

**Speaker 1:** I know some of the young guys busted up my big five-ton iron truck, pulling somebody out of the Sippy Holes. It's already basically-

**Speaker 7:** Yeah, no, this hill is off Whiskey Ranch. Okay.

**Speaker 6:** It's a cheap trail right now, essentially.

**Speaker 1:** So do we sell it at Whiskey Ranch? Does it affect any town owner who camps?

**Speaker 2:** National Forest owns on both sides of the road for the entire section, so they're the only ones being affected, as a property.

**Speaker 8:** So nobody else is gonna be able to? Right up there. We used to have Whiskey Ranch, and it went around the front deck and right around the circle. Then they went downtown and got rid of everything.

**Speaker 6:** Can't ride it on a bus, it's thicker anyway, regardless. Yeah.

**Speaker 8:** But we had already sat in, because we sat in with Wolford at the time.

**Speaker 1:** Well, we have a- Residents can't just ride anymore without a bus. My initial thought, until I talk to a few other people, is it's not affecting owners of camps, and it may make it easier for the guys with the four wheelers and the eight convenes that I'm all for, but that's me.

**Speaker 6:** Just a month ago- Just a month ago- Just a month ago, didn't they open up from County Road to Sucker Pond? The same deal? That would have been the federal government, and I don't know as if they did. No deals cut for it no more. Yeah.

**Speaker 5:** Is there any potential for building on this? I have no idea what you're talking about. But where's the closest house?

**Speaker 6:** Major road questions. It's already a good question.

**Speaker 5:** Well, my question is, where's the closest house? It's-

**Speaker 6:** There's a camp at the end of County Road on the corner of like Klondike and County Road. Just up Old County, I don't know, maybe a hundred yards on the right.

**Speaker 5:** That's a camp though, where's the closest house? Closest house?

**Speaker 9:** Yeah.

**Speaker 6:** All these students are in, their property.

**Speaker 5:** Are they talking about the trail that goes over to Bennington?

**Speaker 10:** Yeah, I thought they were talking about

**Speaker 7:** like all the way at the end-

**Speaker 6:** Old County Road all the way through over-

**Speaker 7:** Yeah, well, they're only declassifying 20, 30 miles.

**Speaker 11:** The end where both West Road and Old County Road-

**Speaker 6:** That's where it comes out. They're numbers now. Yeah. It's right at the high tension line. Right. You go past Klondike on County, maybe-

**Speaker 5:** I'm familiar with what you're talking about.

**Speaker 6:** Half mile, maybe three quarters of a mile, whatever.

**Speaker 5:** So what happens with the state in terms of if you declassify a town road to a trail, what authority does the state have over that?

**Speaker 7:** I don't think it matters. Yeah, whatever the hell they want to do. I mean, I think it's just a matter of getting it off our table. You can always make it a road again. Whether it affects somebody or doesn't, in my opinion. Well, we're not doing anything with it, so- If we like the Ford legal trail, we have three others.

**Speaker 1:** Yeah, let's keep this simple. If it's not affecting anybody with a camper or a house, and the guys who drive four wheelers and side by side, which I've always supported. If they're looking for this, it seems to me it's a win-win. I mean, unless I hear other information. That changes my mind.

**Speaker 12:** I mean, I think it takes some cheaper.

**Speaker 6:** I mean, I haven't been on one of those in a long time. I mean, it's basically a jeep road with some skills to get over the road.

**Speaker 7:** Yeah, the top of that road is bad. I went over it about two weeks ago with the Trail Max that I have. And I was like, that's rough. That's bad. You know, I had to log it up. I had to log it all the way up to Sacré-Cœur.

**Speaker 6:** That's about a year ago. 20 years ago, you could probably take a pickup over it. But it's just, it's gone .

**Speaker 7:** Well, let me get this on the record. If I could hold your thought. Let me get this from the Select Board. So this is a message from the Select Board to the Planning Commission. Dear Planning Commission, the Select Board is considering ne-classification of a portion of County Road from Class 4 to a legal trail. A Public Site Inspection meeting has been scheduled to view the approximate 0.3 mile of county road. beginning at the intersection of the national forest trail number 301 sucker sucker pond trail and county road continuing along county road westerly to the pound old vermont pound line since you are in the interested party formal notice is hereby given of the site inspection which will be held on thursday august 1st 2024 at 4 45 p.m beginning at the stamford town office 986 main road stamford vermont the select board will hold a public hearing on thursday august 1st at 5 30 at the town office concerning the approximate 0.3 mile county road if you have

**Speaker 13:** any questions let us know nancy mishika chair okay so so that my understanding is my writing

**Speaker 1:** away went all the way up and what i call this is right at the high tension yeah and there's a road goes off to the right right that's it there's nothing i mean any cancer from their back yeah yeah nothing that i'm aware of i mean i mean i thought that was actually the

**Speaker 5:** line is it the one going over to the bennington or is it going to suck a pound i think it's right

**Speaker 7:** at the end of old county where i'd have to see it but i'm assuming it's at the top of west road where it turns the right to go to county that section from there to the point of the line the 0.3 mile starts at sucker pond trail

**Speaker 2:** it's only county road from the pound line 0.3 miles back to that sucker pond

**Speaker 1:** track so it's not the west road it's out of the high tension where the road goes off to the right

**Speaker 3:** and our road commissioner

**Speaker 5:** so my point uh with that how hard is it to bring it back to class four once you remove it

**Speaker 14:** already it would be a major major undertaking no no no what i'm saying is if you go to a trail

**Speaker 9:** would you have to survey to bring it back to class four you make it a legal trail i believe because

**Speaker 6:** you would retain the right to do whatever you want with it in the future it didn't answer my

**Speaker 5:** question though what would it entail to bring it back to the classroom way more money than we had

**Speaker 15:** so why would you want to get that up you can use it now right so the survey would be required when

**Speaker 2:** the

**Speaker 1:** it's not a useful road why don't you just go to the meeting on august first and and get information from people who are going to have more information

**Speaker 5:** any of us yeah i agree with you my only point to bring this up i think there's questions that have

**Speaker 9:** to be answered yeah it sounds like a lot of people don't know this is a no that started over a year

**Speaker 5:** and a half yeah yeah so hey look i brought trails uh for people 20 years ago and they let them go and now they want them back and you know i see the atvs going up the road and utv 50 miles an hour

**Speaker 6:** by the dump so some of the some of the roads we gave away we also established legal trails

**Speaker 9:** which i believe you gave away a lot of railways no the select board did which should never happen

**Speaker 6:** the legal trails you can retain this if you want to use them in the future okay so my question is

**Speaker 5:** why can't you use them now for atv you can't look in the bridge of the gap that's all they just want

**Speaker 16:** to create a loop with their right yeah the loot's already there though it's not though

**Speaker 7:** it's a gap between stamford and power they get more funding they get more funding technically if they ride that from the trail and the epo is there it's fine okay it's not trail that's

**Speaker 6:** different yeah it doesn't create a loop anymore because uh pono sold their portion to national

**Speaker 9:** force and then they gave it he just brought up a point that makes sense that it allows

**Speaker 5:** the state to find people on a section that's not

**Speaker 7:** true right well they can do that all over the state i mean if you ride when you come off by the pond and actually have to cross over the main road to get to the trail you have suction that's allowed on that state highway because technically there's basically allows if you're past that like a smidgen that stadium that lives right here can be like bam and take

**Speaker 17:** your whole thing so if you're registered you can fly wherever you want no no you can't not anymore

**Speaker 9:** it in the last four rows regardless i'm talking about registered insurance and no the only way

**Speaker 7:** you can do that there's only one little call and i'm not even gonna get on to it on the recording but bottom line is you have to be registered insured and have a bassa pass to be able to ride the vast okay yeah you can't just come from like maine and be like get a grip you know because they're out there and they're pulling people over left and right and they're just looking for your sticker and they're looking for your insurance stuff huh i mean there are some uh sheriff's department guys that sometime are up closer towards greensboro but a lot of the epls and stuff like that they'll sit right at the entrance to like sucker pond and stuff like that they're waiting for you to come up the road 20 years ago it was a lot of the um game wardens yeah we just don't have and we don't have the pottle stuff like how you used to be able to ride like you can ride an atv i don't since that person got hurt or died on next to stewards a couple years ago yeah i don't know if things have changed over there i'm going to pay attention because i don't ride over there but they were the only ones that you can ride in reedsboro you can ride around certain areas but it's like very specific i'm just saying i think this is going to be a fun meeting i think it's it's a great thing it ends the goal it allows the trails i think they take care of them the people that ride them the majority of the people yes we've always got bad eggs don't get me wrong but once they come down main road at a hundred or go up the road i mean you're never going to get rid of that okay you can try like that but it's

**Speaker 6:** in a place too where it's not going to affect the quality of life of certain people right that's all

**Speaker 1:** i knew a young kid in his teens that had like three friends and they had border cycles and it was a sneak trooper legend kind of by the name of paul kip yeah and he came to my house more than once to have a talk with my dad

**Speaker 13:** because we were ripping down the roads and they still do and i i mean that's that's another

**Speaker 1:** discussion all right let's let's go okay next up okay next thing uh hearing of visitors well you've got your five minutes

**Speaker 2:** i'm asking you guys to approve payment of this bill and the planning commission members that have been on the board for a couple years will remember that a couple years ago the vcrc came and dangled the carrot and said hey you just we're doing this bylaw modernization grant we don't know all the terms yet but just sign up here and you'll get better grants and they just kind of try to show all these great things that we would get if we saw enough and then when we got to the nitty-gritty that said we need to um increase housing and you know the cards i didn't want to share initially the board chose not to change the bylaws ultimately so our 10 match was not waived so i received the bill for it this week 909.7 what was the seven times 909.07 that would have been our 10 match that they would have waived and and they come out and say it would be waived if the municipality adopted zoning revisions that reflected the state's priorities for removing regulatory impediments to housing development so all along they knew they were pushing housing development but you never heard those words

**Speaker 3:** for the first year and a half okay so laurie what are the ramifications

**Speaker 1:** we tell them when i go home saying 900 bucks

**Speaker 2:** this grant the bylaw update and then the more we got into it and found out what it was about we chose not to change our bylaws so

**Speaker 6:** we jostled around several things you could change no i remember

**Speaker 9:** i thought we did change something so that we did avoid that no bylaw was changed i don't think we

**Speaker 6:** ever we ever accepted it you had to change one by one yeah yeah i thought we did go for example not that you guys want to do any of it but you could go for 150 feet or up from 125. here you

**Speaker 1:** want to change or change like anything i remember it was a very very one simple change i thought we did it we didn't do it we're at the point now they want 900 bucks and for how long again what's

**Speaker 2:** done forever this is a one-shot deal i think it's too late we had our opportunity

**Speaker 1:** looking we have a seven member board you're smiling you know where i'm going with this i make a motion and we call them to go come insane yeah all those in favor politically correct

**Speaker 7:** no no no no no i put a motion so that we can that we refused amen

**Speaker 5:** if that was jim sullivan you were doing i think he used the term if that was jim sullivan that's what you'd be saying because he's the guy

**Speaker 1:** you probably never got i'm inviting jim sullivan to the conference we're going to have in town yeah i'm good buddies with him but i'd tell him the same thing but he wouldn't he you know he used the vc

**Speaker 5:** obviously for a lot of things i don't think you know we didn't we had a chance to use them you

**Speaker 7:** should pay for it no no no you're right you're right do we have a do we have a second or anything unless we got to finish here we've got a motion do we have a second i'll jump on yours no yours is

**Speaker 5:** better i make a motion to pay the bill i'll second it all in favor aye aye

**Speaker 18:** get it all right so can i see who's an eye all those not in favor

**Speaker 19:** let's just get it on a page what can they do for us if we just don't pay i mean who knows

**Speaker 5:** but then we next time you need a plan next time you need help next time

**Speaker 1:** this is something i was on a select board for kenya something that i've learned you push back and you see how far they're going to push back if you don't push back

**Speaker 7:** you don't know that keep right now i get it do you understand i'm not educated on what happened

**Speaker 20:** and transpired and the duration so i was proud of that we agreed with it and then i was off the

**Speaker 4:** board we didn't follow up and do what we were supposed to do if you don't push back you don't

**Speaker 1:** know what the other side is going to do and a lot of times you push back and they just hold They throw their carts down, and they're like, and what have you got to lose?

**Speaker 5:** Who was pushing for that $1,000?

**Speaker 6:** Who was pushing for the $1,000?

**Speaker 21:** Shaftsbury.

**Speaker 9:** $900.

**Speaker 5:** I remember the vote and how it went down, and we were fighting. We didn't want to do it, and somebody said, we're going to do it. And I'm looking at him right there.

**Speaker 1:** I'm not the fucking mayor in town, all right?

**Speaker 22:** All right, well, if you voted on it, it's already all set.

**Speaker 7:** Let's move on.

**Speaker 22:** Because you're blind.

**Speaker 1:** I'm not putting mine on there.

**Speaker 7:** You got an ID vote for it.

**Speaker 21:** You guys put yours. Vice chair.

**Speaker 7:** I've signed worse things.

**Speaker 21:** I need my thumb back.

**Speaker 7:** Yeah, you need your thumb back. You just want my name on here? Anywhere specific? I don't really care.

**Speaker 2:** Just put an okay to agree motion. Say it again.

**Speaker 8:** The last meeting we did.

**Speaker 5:** All we got is a word, and that's no good. We did die.

I don't have them anymore. Do you have any more?

**Speaker 21:** Does everybody get this out? I don't know.

Is that what you want?

**Speaker 21:** I think it shows.

**Speaker 23:** Do you have my email?

**Speaker 18:** I would never.

**Speaker 24:** Which one did you send?

**Speaker 8:** Which one did you send?

**Speaker 1:** The prince does have all the funds. Just remember that.

**Speaker 8:** I have a copy. They took all my email from my iPad. I took my phone, but I don't get it.

**Speaker 25:** Do we have any more visitors?

**Speaker 7:** No. Who's speaking?

**Speaker 8:** I'm done.

**Speaker 7:** You sure?

Yeah.

**Speaker 7:** Stay in there.

**Speaker 11:** Yeah.

**Speaker 6:** No.

**Speaker 1:** Okay.

**Speaker 21:** So hearing approval of records. I sent three emails.

**Speaker 1:** Regular meeting minutes of June 3rd.

**Speaker 21:** Email me.

**Speaker 1:** Can everybody check out the meeting? The minutes?

**Speaker 8:** Just send me something so I know that we can connect. Okay.

**Speaker 1:** I'm going to ask if anybody has any objections. Okay. Okay. I'm making motion to approve that. Anybody who was here at the last meeting can approve.

**Speaker 5:** I can't remember who was here or not.

**Speaker 21:** You were not here. Right. Thank you.

**Speaker 26:** And I was not here.

**Speaker 21:** You were not here. And I wrote the minutes, so I feel like I shouldn't approve. Yeah. Okay. So one of you two has to approve. Second, I mean.

**Speaker 27:** Second.

**Speaker 1:** All in favor? Aye. Aye. Okay. I was here. Minutes are approved.

**Speaker 21:** Lori, how do I do this? How do I write that then?

**Speaker 1:** I don't believe you can vote right.

**Speaker 2:** Did you get a person to check it? I don't believe you can vote.

**Speaker 21:** So I can't say all approved, right? I don't believe you can vote. How do I write that one? No, you can't.

**Speaker 2:** You're not here. You don't have four.

**Speaker 7:** So you do have four votes.

**Speaker 28:** So can I, even though I wrote them?

**Speaker 2:** Did four vote? Yeah.

**Speaker 21:** You can vote. I didn't vote.

**Speaker 2:** You can vote. You can vote.

**Speaker 21:** Because I wrote them. I wasn't sure. You can vote. Okay.

**Speaker 2:** You can vote. So you would say, Dan made the motion. I'll be seconded it. Yep. Four. You're going to say four yeses. And then you're going to say, what's left? Three. Three were not present. Three abstained or not present.

**Speaker 21:** Thank you.

**Speaker 12:** Okay.

**Speaker 1:** So now it's a discussion.

**Speaker 6:** It looks like my sweater you're making over there.

**Speaker 2:** It's mighty tiny, isn't it?

**Speaker 29:** No, it's just right.

**Speaker 8:** It'd be a nice hat, huh? Cute.

**Speaker 30:** I got two.

Really?

**Speaker 2:** I got two.

**Speaker 8:** What is it?

**Speaker 2:** What are you making? A baby sweater.

Twins?

**Speaker 8:** For grandma.

**Speaker 2:** No, I got two different kids. Two different kids. Oh, okay. One is in August and one in November.

**Speaker 7:** Wonderful. There we go. All right. What do you have for laws recently passed?

**Speaker 21:** Open meeting law. Well, the first one is the- Enlighten us. Open meeting law. I don't know if everyone saw that, and I'm glad Lori is at today's meeting. From what I can discern from attending legal stuff on BCRC when they went over the laws, the planning commission is considered non-advisory, even though 99% of the time we advise, but because we vote on things like the lot division, for example, we're considered non-advisory. And therefore, the rules apply to us that we have to have a recording, which we do, and it has to be digitally put on. Did you talk about this already, Lori? Are you going to put it on the website?

**Speaker 2:** I have not talked to a select board yet, but I think it needs to go on the website. I think that's the new requirement.

**Speaker 21:** Yeah. And so it needs to be posted. I would say just put it right next to the minutes there. Right. Okay. And it needs to be posted for 30 days after we say these minutes are approved. So the minutes we just approved can go on 30 days from now. But the advice is to sort of get it on as soon as possible. And then it has to stay up for 30 days after our next meeting. So we meet the next first Monday in August, and this recording will stay up for 30 days after that. But that's sort of something between Lori and me. So we don't really have to worry about it. We also have to provide, always have to have an in-person meeting, which isn't such a problem because COVID, it was a bigger deal then. We also have to have a remote option for people, whether it's just a telephone or something like that. I'm not sure if we have any other electronic, but we also have to put on the webpage, again, Lori will be doing this probably. The explanation of the open meeting law, how you can make a complaint if the open meeting law wasn't followed properly, et cetera. That all needs to go on the webpage. But again, I don't think this board needs to just be aware of it. Next one, Act 250. That also, the Act 250, the changes to Act 250 passed where they overrode the veto by the governor. And we talked about these last meeting. So I talked with Janet Hurley from BCRC, and she also agrees that we probably won't be a tier one town. We could, because I guess we do have a village designation, I wasn't sure if we did. But she's thinking because we don't have the staffing, you have to have X amount of staffing, and we don't have that. Yeah, I know. So she really doesn't think we'll be a tier one. So to me, that puts us at tier two, which keeps us... The same old Act 250, or tier three, which goes into protecting natural resources.

**Speaker 5:** Isn't that only like the 2060 or something like that?

**Speaker 21:** That's something else. That's the-

**Speaker 1:** Did they get the maps yet? They haven't-

**Speaker 27:** No.

**Speaker 21:** They haven't done the land use maps yet.

**Speaker 1:** Tier three is the one that scares me. Right. When we start talking about natural resources, you're going to take the rest of your rivers, your water, and your farmland.

**Speaker 27:** What are the chances of that?

**Speaker 6:** Are you saying how we're like 50,000? I'm like 55% national forests.

**Speaker 21:** Right.

**Speaker 6:** Very good.

**Speaker 21:** They're going to protect- Very good. Exactly. There'll be more protections.

**Speaker 1:** And this is what I was talking about earlier is at some point, you've got to push back. And if nobody pushes back, they just keep taking, taking, taking, taking. I'm all about pushing back. I always have that in this country. And then I want to see what the other guy is going to do. Okay, are you going to bring the big guns or the big guns? you're bringing in lawyers and sue us okay maybe we got to take a step back but i want to see what

**Speaker 21:** you're going to do well they're going to draw the maps and it's going to take a couple of years dan for them to get all that they're going to decide kind of who's in which tier we're almost to be in the tier three i believe which is where they'll protect our natural

**Speaker 31:** resources so um one like more development pardon identity development right yes

**Speaker 21:** right well we don't have to have we just have to be we have to have they called adequate soil so they changed it from having to have town water and septic to adequate soil well i'm talking about

**Speaker 5:** they were concentrating more development in all of the established areas right yes people like they're not looking to do that

**Speaker 4:** here right fly over europe you want to see what the future is for us which which country i've flown

**Speaker 1:** over all of them the last few years you got i'm plies that that you could spit to your neighbor's house and then the rest is all farmland and whatnot it's been that way for a while crunch us all into a little freaking zone and in the natural resources i know the natural i i said it here at this board he ain't at this level board meetings natural resources they want in stamford to see uranium up there by sucker pump

**Speaker 21:** well the bcrc has till 12 31 26 to write write their new plan their regional plan so we have until then to really see what they're going to do two years that i mean all right also there's new flood disclosures um so people who are selling in high-risk areas um have to disclose that now they made more stalled law laws about that and laura you might know more about the second home tax rate i wasn't sure exactly if that meant when you're purchasing your second home or do they get a

**Speaker 28:** higher tax rate all together i'm not sure if that has to do with the transfer tax when you're buying

**Speaker 2:** right as opposed to property taxes i wasn't sure i couldn't tell yeah there were a lot of clerks and forth trying to figure out what that mean for explanation

**Speaker 5:** Just for clarification on what you're talking about. In Vermont, under real estate law, you did not have to disclose if you had any water issues. So when you were selling, you never had to disclose it.

**Speaker 21:** I'm not sure what it was before, but I know now they're making it.

**Speaker 32:** No, I'm telling you.

**Speaker 5:** Now they changed the law, and now you have to disclose it. You always had to disclose it in Massachusetts. But in Vermont, you could sell a property that's been flooded, like just about this whole town, and not disclose it was flooded. You could not disclose a lot of things.

**Speaker 33:** And now they have to, which they should anyway.

**Speaker 7:** You should be ashamed to not disclose things like that. But that's not for me to decide. So anyways.

**Speaker 21:** Or even if you're in the threat of being, like even if you've never been in a... You're in the river corridor. Yes. This whole town needs to be in the river corridor.

**Speaker 18:** If you need flooded...

**Speaker 1:** This whole town is not in the river corridor. There are rocks on your head. Years ago, freaking people used to bring in bulldozers. Say it's not hot around here. You want to talk, talk. Lower your voice.

**Speaker 4:** I'm going to clear the river corridor.

**Speaker 5:** Lower your voice. Don't tell me how to talk, all right? Don't scream at me. You want to holler at them, go ahead, but don't scream at me.

**Speaker 1:** They'd clear the brook out, get a bulldozer, and then the water didn't come into your yards. Then the state took over the rivers and created these river corridors. It's a bunch of bullshit.

**Speaker 6:** It is, but they've got it.

**Speaker 1:** No, no, no, but we don't have to keep giving them more and more and more. That's my point. I'm not yelling at you in particular. I'm yelling at the whole freaking situation. We don't have to keep giving them freaking ground.

**Speaker 5:** Listen, I agree, and I said a long time ago, why is this town allowing Green Mountain Forest to buy our lands and get $150 an acre in taxes so we get $30,000 a year on the 12,000 acres when we should be getting a half a million? Why did this town allow that? Who's behind that? Because people couldn't afford to pay the tax?

**Speaker 1:** No, no, because the Planning Commission, when they first joined, was passing laws so nobody up in the forest zone could even build a freaking camp. You mean to tell you you're going to just pay taxes on it forever and you can't do anything? Because this board passed the freaking laws.

**Speaker 5:** You and I worked on that to change that.

**Speaker 1:** You were not on the board when I first joined.

**Speaker 5:** No, you and I worked on that to change that 20 years ago.

**Speaker 4:** Right, but the damage was already done.

**Speaker 1:** The patent sold off all these lands because nobody could do anything.

**Speaker 5:** What happened? We went to the land that North Adams just sold off.

**Speaker 1:** They can't do anything on it.

**Speaker 5:** Why? Because North Adams owned it, we were getting good taxes for it, they'd sell it to the land of public trust, and then the board voted and let the Green Mountain take it. More land should never wet, right?

**Speaker 1:** Yeah, it's all water over the dam now. Oh yeah, last year, you're talking 20 years ago, I thought about where we're at now. People now in town, you own land in the forest zone, you can build a cabin. You can even put in a... You can build a house. No, no, you can build a, or you can have a... I can't build anything. There's no work for you. No, no, no, you can even now, you don't even need a suffrax system, you can have a what? You can have a composting plant. In the village? In the forest zone.

**Speaker 34:** That's pretty much what North Adams is on, I think.

**Speaker 6:** I think you can pretty much have one anywhere in the world.

**Speaker 1:** So we did, we did accomplish some good things, but it was... The town was already...

**Speaker 5:** Still a lot of acres that could be gone to those guys, and like you said, they keep buying more and more and more.

**Speaker 6:** The forest was essentially about as open as it's going to get a few years ago, when we removed the conditional use process to the building in the forest. It's just a regular permanent process now. Good, good. I like to see people doing stuff. Even if we don't get stuff.

**Speaker 1:** You don't use it, you lose it. That's the old saying.

**Speaker 12:** I mean, it's going to sell.

**Speaker 6:** It's already selling up that way. You know, if you're talking West Road, Bondyke Road. It's selling? Yeah.

**Speaker 5:** People are trying to buy land on it. I get notices every day for the 48 acres I own.

**Speaker 6:** It's coming, I've been saying that for four or five years.

**Speaker 5:** Three times what I paid for it. What do they want it for?

**Speaker 6:** I mean, the high speed of that, as much as it's a great thing, it's probably the end game as far as people, you know, a lot of people move into town looking for land. Because they can...

**Speaker 9:** There's three rivers running through it.

**Speaker 5:** Why do they want it?

**Speaker 6:** They don't know if they're buying it.

**Speaker 5:** No, I don't think so. I think with the GPS, you can see just about anything.

**Speaker 6:** Yeah, well, they're buying and they're coming.

**Speaker 5:** And they are coming. Yeah.

**Speaker 21:** Well, they'll be taxed more.

**Speaker 5:** What would we buy them on? Before Dan starts screaming at him.

**Speaker 1:** Dave, I like yelling at you.

**Speaker 7:** Don't take it personally. So, bottom line is... It could possibly be classified into Tier 3, but we're not going to know that until 2026. 26, the end of it. Right. I'm sure there'll be more information for it coming over the next couple of years.

**Speaker 6:** Yeah, it's 730.

**Speaker 21:** Who handles that? Us? Who is that, though? Is that planning? That's the Planning Commission.

**Speaker 6:** That's the Planning Commission through the Planning and County Regional Commission. All that was set up through that.

**Speaker 1:** It's nice to have a few people that know what the hell is going on.

**Speaker 21:** Yeah, I know it. Yeah. We wouldn't want to keep that.

**Speaker 6:** There is grants available with that, especially for historic structures. For example, if the town was to buy a property in the center of town and wanted to renovate it, there would be substantial funds. There would be some grants available for that. I've mentioned this five, six, seven, eight times. There may be some grants at the school that we benefit from. It's right here in the Village Center District. There's got to be stuff out there. I just don't have the time to research grants and all that stuff. There's money available because of that designation.

**Speaker 21:** Okay.

**Speaker 1:** Are we on the Flooded Safety or the Equity? I don't think we touched on Flooded Safety.

**Speaker 22:** Well, you kind of touched on it.

**Speaker 1:** Oh, okay.

**Speaker 5:** I think I touched on it.

**Speaker 21:** Full loaders. We skipped over the Renewable Energy Standard. Let's just do that quickly. Again, it's just to repeat myself. 100% renewable by Vermont by 2035. And moving in-state energy coming from within Vermont from 10% to 20%. So they've really moved the goalpost for that.

**Speaker 1:** Does renewable energy include wood or no?

**Speaker 21:** No. But not for individuals. The biomass is not going to be allowed for corporations like Green Mountain Power. That doesn't mean Dan Poppin. It means Green Mountain Power.

**Speaker 1:** So these generating electric plants that use chips to make electricity, they're no longer going to be able to use wood chips.

**Speaker 21:** Oh, wood chips. Okay. At least I know they're not going to be making more.

**Speaker 6:** They're probably only about 1% or 2% now, right? What's the percentage? I don't know. We used to ship it to everybody in the Northeast. It'd be hard. I mean, I don't know how they could possibly imagine removing it from home heating fuel in the Northeast.

**Speaker 21:** I think that's a whole different question.

**Speaker 35:** I just don't think that's possible.

**Speaker 6:** I hope you guys are right. Mini-splits won't go this far north. So that's not the technology that's going to work.

**Speaker 21:** Yeah, we're not talking about individuals here. Thank you.

**Speaker 6:** You know, the state's more likely to add...

**Speaker 34:** Oh, boy, you get fired up.

**Speaker 6:** The state's more likely to add debris to the stream than they are to put a bulldozer in it for trout habitat. They're more likely to what? Add debris. Add wood, logs, things of that nature.

**Speaker 5:** For what? So I don't need to come through and wipe out the population again?

**Speaker 6:** There's not a need of tracing the whole state. That's the way the trends are going. There's some native birds. There's native trout.

**Speaker 7:** Yeah.

**Speaker 4:** Right.

**Speaker 1:** When I was a kid... I don't want to take up time here, but this is important. When I was a kid, I used to fish in brooks. I used to catch more native trout in these brooks, even basin brooks. And tell me, Sally, you'll remember, what did, in the summertime, when it got hot and dry and everything was dusty, what did the town road boss spray on the roads? Oil. Oil. Used motor oil. And I'm... That's a fact. And there were more trout back then. Now there's nothing there unless they stock it. So what the hell's happened?

**Speaker 7:** Back then there were sewers going in the brooks.

**Speaker 11:** The main problem was they don't have any

**Speaker 6:** genetic diversity anymore because they've been shut out from all the dams and dams. There's no genetic diversity getting up for the fish to breed from, so they're basically... Plus those rivers drop alone out.

**Speaker 7:** They went from like this to like triple size, and so the water level went from this to this, and like they're just, the only way they're coming downstream is if there's a massive... We had a lot of beaver dams and that produced the trout and they would go under there and I don't know... Trust me, I've fished them every... known to man around here, and they're not, they're just not there. I mean, I find some small ones, some small browns, but... I mean, you gotta go down towards Clarksburg to even get the rainbows and the bigger browns. I mean, I pulled a big one

**Speaker 6:** by the water. No. I'm trying to reconnect

**Speaker 7:** all these streams. The long, long, long... They've been there for years. They've only been in that dam. I'll fish at the top of the... You know where the big dam is where Route 8 meets Route 2? That big dam that hits the flood chute? You go up to the little dam right behind those row houses, there's a huge sinkhole in there right at the bottom of that dam. And there are some monsters in there and little babies have been there for years.

**Speaker 1:** You see me breaking all the rules? This is the best fishing spot? I wouldn't say it's the best fishing spot. It's the best fishing spot. Aldi already knows.

**Speaker 6:** So there'll be more investigation on this stream up here by Trout Unlimited in the near future because they're already worried about the main stem of the Hoosick and the south branch of the Hoosick becoming too warm. It's going to be carp country in the next 10 years. Is that mean by saying it's going to be like an Arlington farm? Plus there's a massive river that will just get rid of the dam? Well, that's part of the flood thing, right? Well, according to Trout Unlimited,

**Speaker 7:** it's going to get rid of the dam. Because that's like so far off. Fly fishing would never finish nothing there.

**Speaker 21:** I think it's going to tie in the renewable energy thing. I think it's going to tie in with the land development maps when they make them. So I think those two things to watch together. Take on it.

**Speaker 6:** In between now and then they can do anything to those rules. As far as high density population in Stamford, like it or not, there's a safeguard built in as far as storm water goes. It would be hard to get around that.

**Speaker 26:** I eliminated a toxic septic that was going into the river. You listed this territory. I removed the threat. I would actually guess it's not the only

**Speaker 7:** Two straight pipe right to the river when I dug it up. Straight into the river. There was no beds. It wasn't going into the corner of the yard. Straight into the river. It's like, wow. That was a good one. Anyway.

**Speaker 1:** We did that. We did that. Okay, flood safety app.

**Speaker 21:** Kurt, you seem to know more about this than me.

**Speaker 1:** The flood safety app?

**Speaker 21:** So they're going to do some river corridor protections. They're going to be making new maps again for 2026. They're going to have state regulations to keep development the new developments out of harm's way. That's the way they put it. So they make the maps where not to build and allow space for the rivers to overflow and the river to move, the water to move.

**Speaker 6:** So they're going to take over they're looking to take over wetlands.

**Speaker 21:** Wetlands, yes.

**Speaker 6:** The state's going to take over all water.

**Speaker 21:** Right, which is my next thing. Wetland protections. They're going to do wetland mapping. Which is to protect the wetlands we have or actually increase them.

**Speaker 6:** You're going to have to pay for your well water. I would have doubt at some point they're trying to jam You're doing it in other states now. I mean the town doesn't necessarily need sewer and water. They need one or the other. Think about it.

**Speaker 7:** If they went in and tried to regulate your well think about how much money that would cost them to because they'd be responsible for cleaning it and maintaining it. If you're going to pay for it, that means they take ownership of said water that's coming through there which in return they will have to monitor, they will have to hire people to do that, they will have to I mean it would be an astronomical amount. I know, I know. But my point is they're doing it in other states.

**Speaker 13:** Wouldn't they lay it? It would have to be multiple plants.

**Speaker 1:** My gravity is spring. They'll say we own it. You pay us X amount per gallon there's a meter in your house now.

**Speaker 21:** I have no idea how it works. Wouldn't they wouldn't they lay pipe and everything if they put in town water?

**Speaker 36:** I don't think they'd utilize

**Speaker 21:** their wells.

**Speaker 36:** I don't think you have a shallow well.

**Speaker 7:** I have a 15 foot shallow well. It's a new construction. I don't think you get put.

**Speaker 5:** The banks are restricted but you still can do it.

**Speaker 37:** I think in New Hampshire

**Speaker 1:** it's more restricted. They give you specs if you're putting in a shallow well they give you specs. I've heard them, they're crazy. I'm on a main bank. So even when we're droughty, I'm flowing. My well could feed 10 houses. Lawrence's well up there on the mountain I think it's a golf course that could feed 3 quarters of the town. I've seen that well when I was little.

**Speaker 6:** There's some houses attached to that. Huh?

**Speaker 1:** I'm telling you that is the spring of all springs.

**Speaker 18:** The last thing is about dams

**Speaker 21:** like dam safety. They want to take the maintenance and inspection and what not of dams away from municipalities. I'm not an expert on this but it turned over to the Department of Environmental Conservation so it would become more of a more state monitored as opposed to locally monitored which I know dams are not going to like that.

**Speaker 1:** We don't have any dams in the basement town. Right now I can only focus on Sanford. I can't focus on the whole state.

**Speaker 21:** And the emergency planning will go from municipalities more to the state the VCRC, the region.

**Speaker 1:** Emergency planning? Pardon? That's part of the emergency planning? Regional planning. Yeah, but we're working around that. That's right.

**Speaker 21:** That's all I got.

**Speaker 1:** Okay, old business anybody?

**Speaker 5:** I'd like to chat about that letter you sent out for emergency management and our students who thought about it. Two weeks ago when my power went down again, I've had a generator for years and I have physical due out but I thought as a board, either the select board or this board the benefit this town would have is if we helped sponsor through the state people to get generators powered by propane so that every house has one so that in an emergency everybody would have power. And that's something the state would help fund. It would take about a million and a half dollars I calculated it out. The state would pay 80% of it and the town would have to come up. You know, you wouldn't be able to buy trucks for Dave one year maybe. But I think that's something, to your point it gives you water it gives you emergency power, it gives you heat if everybody had a generator that would solve a lot of problems.

**Speaker 26:** Are you talking about a whole home generator?

**Speaker 5:** I'm talking about a Generac

**Speaker 33:** 10,000 watt generator.

**Speaker 7:** That's about 15 grand a piece. No. Yeah. I researched it for about six months because when we had all that stuff went out I was getting sick of going out You put me right where

**Speaker 5:** my brother installs them and he's not getting that kind of money. Things have changed and I've been honored.

**Speaker 33:** From soup to nuts.

**Speaker 7:** So if you don't have somebody in your family or your buddy doing a solid like Paul just had the regular you can't get a Generac he got Kohler and he put it in he had to have the propane run the electrician, you know, the whole shebang it was between 13 and 15 thousand his was on the higher end because he wanted a little bit of a bigger tank for propane. My thing is I'd be all for it. How is it going to pay for me to get a Generac? It doesn't probably be 15 grand

**Speaker 5:** so at least you have a number I think you probably with the amount we're talking about you could probably get it for less.

**Speaker 38:** So if the states will only give 80%

**Speaker 5:** on 10 grand, 8,000 and the town has to come up or the people have to come up with a couple thousand bucks it's a critical thing. We lose power here more than anything else. We lose power. What we can do, we can make a difference in this town to your point Dan to your point, I'm sorry

**Speaker 4:** Well okay

**Speaker 1:** so I hear what you're saying and if you can come up with numbers that the state is going to pay 80% I'd be willing to listen I have a hard time thinking they'll pay squat Our state is broke, the federal government is broke I'm trying to get

**Speaker 7:** Do you have any leads on this? How's that? Do you have any leads on this?

**Speaker 5:** There's nothing Nobody's initiated a program like this It's just like when we brought in broadband 25 years ago Nobody even heard of it We brought it in and it happened That's why we have high speed internet today I just got the idea from Dan saying hey emergency, let's see this, that and I said what's the most important thing we can do for people in this town and that's for them to have power Okay, okay

**Speaker 37:** So here's where you and I are in a different thing

**Speaker 1:** I'm not looking at doing stuff I'm looking to get people to do stuff for themselves Okay That's the difference That's fine It's like I've given all the information out You want to follow it You want to have a water filter You want to get a pump so you can draw water out of your drilled well

**Speaker 7:** I think he's just saying your ideas gave him the thought Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I know I think that's exactly what he's saying I think it's something that we should definitely discuss

**Speaker 20:** Especially for all the people who can't

**Speaker 33:** spend for themselves

**Speaker 7:** I'm not worried about myself at this age at 45, I can pretty much go down and do it But you know, like Donnie across the street if the power goes out I'm there trying to make sure I just want to make sure Your neighbor is taken care of is taken care of That benefits the whole town

**Speaker 36:** Yeah, we need information

**Speaker 21:** We need something to read

**Speaker 6:** Well, I'm with you I'll be more resilient in one way or another and it's good that everyone's wheeled

**Speaker 1:** I'm hearing you all and if the state would fund a big portion of it Well, I'm with you there too Right?

**Speaker 5:** Maybe the federal government It might not just be the state There's always money available Now that I've tripped your brain I'm sure you'll be coming up with something What do we got? 300 homes? How many homes do we have in Stamford?

**Speaker 1:** The other thing I think about

**Speaker 37:** How many homes?

**Speaker 14:** We had 400

**Speaker 4:** No, that's people

**Speaker 37:** We got 600?

**Speaker 1:** The other thing I think about

**Speaker 7:** 340 I've had two practice rounds happen to my son They don't pass those I think Sally They've got so many people

**Speaker 5:** Ben, so there's 340 homes How do half the people Yeah, yeah

**Speaker 1:** Gentlemen That'll give me an answer Gentlemen, so In 2000 Right? And I built my house in 1998 I just want to share with you I've had two runs without power Two months in the middle of the winter First was January 1, 2020 For some reason All my transformers at the sawmill blew Okay? That was Y2K Everybody was preparing for it But my house was built Everything was in place But my power came through the sawmill So all those transformers I was without power for January and February Okay? My house ran like a top Okay? February 11, 2012 The sawmill burned down I lost all my transformers I was without power for Two weeks in February And a full month in March So I've had two practice runs In the wintertime What I put on my sheet It gives you resilience Without like Here's the way I think I don't have solar I don't have a generator that runs on Protein Okay? Because if things are really critical You ain't gonna be able to get propane You ain't gonna get gas You ain't gonna get diesel fuel Right? So if you go back And you read my letter I gave everybody the means You live next to a brook Everybody's got a brook next to their house You can go there Have five gallons of water a day Dump it through the filter Although I'll tell you It's a top of the line filter And that was a top of the line filter You can pour through the filter And you can drink that You can only survive three days without water You can go thirty days without food And with a lot of blankets And if you have a wood stove in your house You can survive the winter Okay? You're just gonna go to bed earlier Because you don't have a light And then I always look at The worst case scenario Okay? So I do have a generator That's how I built my house It's a 25,000 K generator Runs off the PTO of my tractor Okay? That's how I built my house Because I didn't have any power So all the guys building my place 25,000 KW Boom Back then I only paid like three grand for it It's a window They may go up to 100 KW But diesel, I'm screwed Right? That's why when I built my house I put in a gravity feed well I got a gravity septic I got root cellars in the basement It's like I have everything And I know not everybody was thinking about that Thirty years ago But I was Okay? Now we're here in this time And my letter was to try to spur people To Find ways To have a water filter Right? Right? I can go to a stagnant pond Pour that through Right? And if there's a nucleus off in the pit field That general dynamics or Raytheon It is going to take out the radioactive particles Right? And it works for 6,000 gallons So figure out your household Right? Where I'm living right now I mean I'm living with my mom But that pump that the Amish made I mean most people's wells My brother-in-law told me His water level is up like 40 feet From the top of his drilled well That pump will pull water up From 125 feet You just screw it on the top of your well And you pump it You don't even have to filter it Because that water Even radiation by the time it gets Even my 15 foot well Right? By the time that water gets To where the water is coming up It's filtering So the radiation particles aren't going to bother

**Speaker 5:** My only point about Trying to be organic Is that with a 100 gallon tank If you have a snow storm And people spend it for two weeks You couldn't get to anybody That will heat the house for a week My coping tank will last a month But that two or three weeks That thing will run and power the people That's huge! I agree with you

**Speaker 1:** I agree I think it's a good point We could do both

**Speaker 13:** For sure Consider both

**Speaker 1:** Okay On to this On to your new business On to this conference I'm trying to pull together I've got all the speakers On the list Jim Sullivan is the first one on the list Okay Jim and I hit it off On this issue Self sufficiency and resilience Okay so It's going to be hard pressed I've got like 8 people to talk They're going to have 15 minutes to talk It'll be like a conference So each person who talks Will have 15 minutes to talk And then they'll have a table Okay And then people throughout The afternoon You go to this one's table This one who's solar This one who's Right? It's going to be a hard thing To pull together with these people I know all these people I've got an emergency guy I've got a solar guy You gave me Up the road You said she did By the way I saw her in the store two weeks ago And I haven't seen her in years And I talked to her and she's like She's got a whole stage room Right? No this is great Do you have a date Huh? Do you have a date or a time No no no What I'm getting at is I'm looking for a few hands To help me with this I mean I've put on conferences before But you know I've got to pull everybody together And the biggest thing is going to be Promoting But to get these people From different states and stuff All in one afternoon On a Saturday I'm thinking a Saturday Right? It's going to be a tough nut to crack

**Speaker 2:** Are you thinking here at the Stamford school gym or bigger

**Speaker 29:** The gym

**Speaker 6:** What were you thinking doing Well it's a great conference Why wouldn't they want to be here

**Speaker 1:** August Well I know I'm a big draw

**Speaker 34:** This is a great idea

**Speaker 6:** I think the concept of this Has just got to be

**Speaker 1:** No this would be the first one

**Speaker 6:** And then build on it Exactly Right because

**Speaker 1:** A conference like this It really should be called a workshop But you could have 20 speakers Speaking on 30 different topics Absolutely It's such a big Broad case I'm just trying to bring in

**Speaker 6:** The nuts and bolts for the first one Topics are endless Anywhere from green products To survival to resilience All that It's going to be a good thing I'm going to do the eating one

**Speaker 21:** Dan on a different topic Did you ever talk to your friend About the overshadowing I'm going to do that Can we put that on the agenda for next meeting Because I still am concerned about That subdivision we did I have a question for people That have been on the planning commission I don't understand as a new member Why Deb can divide into two lots But it took us to make three But yet we had no choice But to say yes

**Speaker 32:** I disagree with that completely

**Speaker 5:** It doesn't make sense to me I think we hastily Voted those lots in without Really understanding It clearly states I have statute That whenever you subdivide A subdivision In water It has to go before the planning commission

**Speaker 21:** Which brings me to the question

**Speaker 5:** We didn't know what the guys building

**Speaker 39:** We didn't know anything

**Speaker 21:** Another question I have It's for people that have been on the planning commission There's that question five It wants a whole outline Not just the buildings now But future buildings We were told not to consider those But I'm wondering if we need to

**Speaker 32:** Yes absolutely

**Speaker 21:** I want to know why it goes to us When we just have to say the same thing Deb is going to say to two Then why can't Deb just do the three Why is that built in Can anyone answer that

**Speaker 2:** Can I make an answer John Dukers was on the board at the time And was looking at that And felt We have one lot If you're going to divide it into a second lot That's fine for our CDA to approve But he felt Three or more should have more than one head Thinking about

**Speaker 21:** But we didn't consider any of that We only were told Following the bylaws That says you can

**Speaker 40:** If you read the bylaw part

**Speaker 2:** It says this is an approved Permittable action So if it's allowed You have to allow it It's just that she doesn't have the authority To say yes It's not in one of the other conditional uses Where it's a maybe Where it fell into If you look at your bylaws You can't use this

**Speaker 5:** But it's still open for review It's still open for review I understand what you're saying

**Speaker 15:** What you're saying is

**Speaker 5:** You have to The planning commission can say no

**Speaker 1:** I guess that's what The planning commission can say

**Speaker 18:** But then it doesn't make sense to me

**Speaker 6:** I think three lots might require A site plan review Which they would have to submit A 10 or 15 step process That this is what they want to do up there That's what they intend on doing

**Speaker 1:** I'll check with the fellow in town

**Speaker 5:** I think that was a Patent subdivision And there was all kinds of stipulations Put on that Because those subdivisions Are all the town People are trying to subdivide The subdivision When roads were supposed to be put in This town ought to just stay away from a lot of that Like up on the road up behind me Because they didn't follow through With what they were supposed to do And we don't want the town Putting the roads in Right?

**Speaker 6:** Depending on your perspective LaSure Road is a place that Could be highly developed I understand that With private road activity So depending on your flavor They're very narrow Very low road fronted And you're talking maybe A couple hundred feet road fronted But they're 30 acres long So the only way to access those

**Speaker 5:** Is to go out the guy That owns the lot next to it That doesn't build And the guy next to him Puts three houses in Now he can't use his lot Because it's only 200 feet wide And it's downhill So the shits long down into his yard Right?

**Speaker 1:** You don't understand anything About septic systems

**Speaker 37:** Who doesn't?

**Speaker 5:** You don't Dan I was putting them in

**Speaker 1:** Hey Dan John Lewis is one of the best engineers Of the year You don't care I know you don't care That's why you wanted to put in a water system For the town Because you don't understand That people's shallow wells are polluted Because they don't keep their Who ever said I wanted to put a water system in?

**Speaker 37:** Dan I talked about taking advantage

**Speaker 5:** Of the water system That North Adams is using

**Speaker 1:** We gave it away though It's a standard proof septic system You can have a shallow well Within 150 feet of that And it's not going to pollute it That's how tight the systems are now So you don't know what you're talking about I do I deal with this stuff all the time

**Speaker 5:** So I'm glad you're an expert Dan But I'm going to tell you something If I own 30 acres of land And I wanted to build a house And somebody put three septic systems Near my boundary line Near my water I think you're right

**Speaker 6:** The shore road is a town That's ripe for heavy development And there's a lot of things To take into consideration with that The road, namely one In a small town, having a road budget for it It's very flat up there There are lots that are long Narrow lots The only way to access them The only way to access the land up there Is basically make it look like It looks like we're by the airport It's a sub-device You know the roads are the making it's great that we want to expand out all these directions We're a town with limited resources and we got to consider the roads and how we're going to maintain these roads

**Speaker 5:** That's wrong. I'm not for against anything. I'm just saying they just openly say okay

**Speaker 41:** Here's three blocks without really looking what's going on. I think it's a state that this argument at nausea to you know, create a tax base

**Speaker 6:** It's it's dependent on who moves the town, right? You could have all these houses and maybe all these kids want to go to McCann High School. Yeah, right So then you're not getting anything

**Speaker 5:** Yeah, but the state gives the most of that that's a fallacy that we're paying all this money the state It does

**Speaker 1:** I'll find out what the overshadowing means

**Speaker 21:** I mean, I've looked into what overshadowing means, but I mean, I think we just need to talk about it more

**Speaker 1:** I'll bring in an engineer

**Speaker 6:** One of the Things that actually 50 didn't notice is the private road situation. That's one of the things that they trust. Yeah

**Speaker 7:** We're you know, it's going to be like 800 feet people that are coming to buy properties. Don't have kids right now Okay, they're coming in. They're coming from the city. It's a second home They're not even glad to set up a different if they homestead it. It doesn't matter because they make too much money

**Speaker 10:** They don't care. So that's the other argument. He would you guys are considering how to structure the management in the future?

**Speaker 6:** How do you structure it? I mean if we're going to become a second home I'm going to be right that are going to pay the tax basis. How do you structure the land use plan? Well, I think the people that actually do that

**Speaker 1:** I think we did it in our last zoning by a lot of change Because the idea is you want to put in a program private road for two lots on your 20-acre lot Tommy paying the penny for it And then it falls under a 250 now you got two houses at five grand apiece taxes What's it costing?

**Speaker 34:** Well, no, no, no, but when you want to get into issues with private roads, ultimately they could fall back on the town

**Speaker 6:** How how okay? Where's the guy the answer road builds his house at the front of the can't get a fire truck up it He builds his house at the front right then he sells three four lots behind them All of a sudden he develops a problem with these lots behind them that are paying taxes to the town And he says I'm not maintaining the road anymore, and I'm not following the road. Yeah Who's that on it's gonna ultimately no way to be ultimately Come back on the town because those horse fighting what paying taxes and there, Roe something between Louder to make it a public road you sorry I

**Speaker 1:** Don't care my point. It's as long as this town stands You're pissed off with your three names. You can't get out. That's a lawsuit between you and that it's not got anything to do with the town and town doesn't have to

**Speaker 6:** What if the guy dies? They're going to want to get it. It's going to matter at some point. It would matter if we're all in here hollering at you. Are you going to matter?

It'll matter. Trust me. It'll ultimately matter. I like going out.

**Speaker 6:** I like going out. I want to be here. Research. Research House Sparrow Road. Research House Sparrow Drive became a public road. It's exactly what happened up there in the 1980s. Yeah. It so happened. It's what happened. It's what happened.

**Speaker 5:** We're still fighting issues. And he's making me believe. Dan, you're making me believe.

**Speaker 2:** Didn't the state within the past couple of years do a new law that people on private roads should have a road maintenance agreement? You should. I would imagine. Yep. Then it wouldn't go back up.

**Speaker 1:** But if you look at our zoning bylaws we passed, one of the stipulations is they're not going be a place for the emergency vehicles to turn around remember that okay so so that was good whether or not the people in that group right right see i want to sell three lots of my kids whether or not we have an agreement no no we fight all the time me and my kids right tomorrow i might not want to let you drive through i might put a log across the road right to me that's between us

**Speaker 34:** and and i don't see why so that was the whole concept that we were talking about behind plan

**Speaker 6:** unit developments that wasn't like everyone was thinking bam there's going to be condos in town we we were talking more about it for cluster development for compounding for families right or if you have 20 acres of land instead of dividing you can divide it up 10 houses on two acres a piece and using up all the land you can cluster those houses you know maybe on two of the acres and you can farm the other 18. right right so that that's that's all that really was that's basically what we were talking about earlier with mid-equal development and how you say in europe right it's cluster development that's really where they're pushing everybody to cluster stuff in the middle and don't touch the resources at all that's why they're basically getting rid of private roads from fragmentation i understand i understand but i also know what's behind their thoughts that controls all the resources

**Speaker 1:** oh yeah i mean you can you could have that whatever controls your feet resources control some people

**Speaker 5:** all right i'm not saying i'm for against um the situation to lisa's point that there's more to these subdivisions than the aeo coming in saying you have to you have to do it uh because my my

**Speaker 41:** research said she was incorrect i'm pretty sure if it's three units it needs a site plan it needs

**Speaker 5:** a site plan and we voted it in and it was wrong so that was why i couldn't find that in the bylaw

**Speaker 6:** though i did it's not right in the bylaws should be right and now it's good

**Speaker 12:** why am i doing that bringing it up

**Speaker 1:** maybe before i'm cheating when you do use two hands that it is cheating

**Speaker 7:** right um so i'm assuming you want more information

**Speaker 21:** yes because it just makes it just to me it doesn't make sense why if three we just say the same thing deb would have said if it's two then what's the point of it even coming if that's our only job suit the same thing she's going to do anyway there's something about how it's not three

**Speaker 32:** yet or something no it's that no it's three well no it was two and then they brought up three and

**Speaker 5:** i said wait a minute it's three and then that's what you can't and then he said don't forget guys

**Speaker 6:** you can times every house by one by two right right you can have accessory quality units with any piece right i understand that they were talking about separate houses

**Speaker 5:** i thought this was all an overshadowing right so because they don't start right now

**Speaker 33:** i thought it was all an overshadowing but they came right in and said that

**Speaker 7:** that's what i said eventually yeah right and that's when i part of it right right now one right so that they don't have to have a site plan visit you know

**Speaker 10:** the overshadowing is exactly that's basically saying three yeah and you can do that

**Speaker 7:** is

**Speaker 1:** yeah

**Speaker 39:** i don't really i'm just concerned for the person like i understand that the state does septic but

**Speaker 21:** like if it's going to impinge upon someone else's private property that they no longer can now if they need to put a well on theirs there you it's their land i feel like they should have use of their land what period right in the future if their grandchildren want to build

**Speaker 42:** if you plant a really nice apple tree that grows up after years you could do anything the branches go over to on my property i have the right to cut those branches or take those apples because it's over channeled on my property right you just don't want the way the state is kind of talking like you can't do that because it's overshadowing they can do that yeah yeah but where

**Speaker 1:** are the regulations that you can't nobody nobody in this room including myself or you or who what do you okay me no what overshadowing means it's a three-year i know what it is i don't know what the aftermath of my year is going to tell you that that means that's why i want to talk to you i want to add that

**Speaker 21:** i'm not sure i think i would like to at least have this board look into it individually so we can bring it on next meeting and see who it goes to

**Speaker 7:** you know what i'm saying but when you're almost handcuffed but like even if we didn't make a decision they're going to do it anyway you know what i'm saying like he's he's going to put that something in there he's going to go to the state yeah in the state he's going to say he's going to approve and ultimately it's going to bypass everybody they're going to put it in yep so but i think if we had so strict stricter right zoning bylaws yes that prohibited further infringing on other people because i think we can

**Speaker 43:** have stronger yeah overshadowing right that's something i think that should be brought up and

**Speaker 7:** that should be researched but i think that i think that that's a so

**Speaker 21:** it might be it might be and i could be wrong we can start here something i mean they can relate

**Speaker 6:** to the conversation around you know talking about acreage for lots and stuff right to divide to for

**Speaker 5:** three things they have to have a site plan review and then all for it everybody being able to do

**Speaker 7:** whatever they want with their property all for it but they can't affect each other what this snake sucks here but i think we as a town can maybe fix future

**Speaker 21:** but okay but on on the application for the permit question five it says a lot a plot plan must be drawn on the grid which we got this this shoddy thing but it says it um it has to show a sketch with the property lines the area of the lot all existing and proposed buildings the front rear side setbacks which you just showed me um property lines the water supply septic that's the stuff that we got that i don't think we were told we weren't supposed to

**Speaker 43:** do yeah she said we weren't supposed to have one building and we were told i think if i remember

**Speaker 7:** correctly that it wasn't even on us it was supposed to be on that but that's the buildings right you know but if i'm not you it's kind of my question is what's your it's your bit there

**Speaker 36:** no it's fine well right why is it on the permit then that question five if it's not to be honest

**Speaker 7:** i don't think yeah because it was specifically just one building i don't think so i think the zoning administrator has the right one building what did we vote on because because the whole goal was is that if i'm not mistaken that this is you want that no this is we voted for their property that they currently have they wanted to build here and leave this 20 they live here now they wanted three lots they just wanted to subdivide to another lot to make it three so yeah see here i mean that was the greatest thing right now here's the existence right but then so they wanted a site plan review yeah they were doing the whole thing and then the kids wanted to build a house directly behind you and in front and then they needed to say 20 plus right behind them for future development because ultimately that's where it's going but i think if they were going to go for the two or three lots that are two or three buildings that's when they needed a site review right so i think they only did the one so that they could bypass the cyber i thought we voted in for three uh three lots um turns to three but

**Speaker 20:** trying to subdivide into three but it ends up being right i i guess shouldn't happen you shouldn't have avoided it i'm just telling you you shouldn't have voted honestly if they want to

**Speaker 7:** subdivide their own land like so i mean i who might tell you what the hell you can do with your property until it's just as long as you follow the zoning bylaws of the town the permitting process the entire process okay just to be edges

**Speaker 6:** you got to do it just to be educated the board probably a year and a half ago we were writing the zoning bylaws and we actually changed that down to what was just supposed to be uh two i believe yeah one or two and we changed it but it never got finalized because we never had a tunnel

**Speaker 34:** vote or anything but right the whole writing of the bylaws i want to go back to what pete's been

**Speaker 1:** saying because i agree 100 if what i'm doing on my lane is affecting you i'll try to run my chains off right because then he i don't really care but if if if this overshadowing is affecting you but we don't know yet okay then i agree with pete 100 because what you do on your property should not infringe on my property rights okay i agree with that i'm all about property but we

**Speaker 44:** do know because we have the map from the engineer no no but we don't know what overshadowing means

**Speaker 42:** oh it's right on the map yeah yeah once you know what does it mean okay you've got a system you've got your distribution of the fluids and it spreads out over a particular area and when you do the site plan for the subject system the distribution goes say 50 feet in each direction it makes a big circle well if you're too close to somebody property that circle goes the overshadowing goes down to this property that means that if they're in a high water

**Speaker 45:** table situation like you really have last year when everybody was pumping out their wells it's just going to flood that flu it can possibly go around

**Speaker 42:** well there that's what it means well see i don't know that question that's the problem i'll get you the three names

**Speaker 7:** i'm going to find out what an engineer does i mean you're pumping your wall out for nothing because you were pumping it out and i thank god that i had my secluded the static water tank where my water was coming in my basement was the addition that they actually put in in the back half of the house so i was able to stand max with pool noodles cut so it funneled all the water into my sump pump and at that point i used that industrial pump that i had and ran it for two straight days just pumping water out of my basement non-stop for two days like he had one in his in his well but again you're fighting a losing battle because until that step it's still the water comes down the table comes down i don't care where you can you dump it out it just comes back in water goes you have to yeah but you have to but a lot of

**Speaker 1:** these systems now a lot of these systems now it's all sand and so that same is filtrating if there

**Speaker 22:** are huge amount of systems i look at the system a lot i'm doing up in rio but if that static water

**Speaker 7:** table grows where he's saying shits in his yard i don't care i don't care what you what you're going to do just as good because there's there's it's not even going to have a chance to filter it's just going to come up it's going to come up through it's not going down because all that water

**Speaker 1:** that per point of a a mounted your septic system holds the solids and then the water runs out of the top of the septic system goes into the mound system i've got a 600 yard mound system okay and then it goes through all the pipes and everything but that sand is filtrating all that soil just

**Speaker 22:** like i talked about earlier with the cesium that comes it's going to filtrate down is what the

**Speaker 7:** point is it's coming up through it because we just put we we put a crazy system in on the current highway i mean it cost us an absolute fortune and then it's cool to watch it put it in all these concrete pillars with all these weird those weird shit that i've never seen before and it was engineered fine-toothed comb by john dupris and we paid for it trust me so but when they had an issue when they first tried to put it in the back half of the building because it flooded and all the water came down from before and all the shit went right through that was in the ground because they ain't got nowhere to go they had no way it can't go it anywhere welcome to stamford it was just pump it in so then they had to run it to the front of the building and let it feed the other way because there was a natural spring that was running down through and the water was pumping that's why all i felt like the amount of water

**Speaker 6:** that was pouring in just to the village here i mean i was pumping 10 15 feet of water out of my well and fill up in 20 seconds it was poor all i'm saying is i want to talk to an engineer just below my panel

**Speaker 13:** because i don't think i think that honestly we should make a recommendation

**Speaker 7:** to the zoning board that they revisit the zoning bylaws they still can have in terms of overshadowing i'm not talking about the actual subject we would be

**Speaker 1:** the ones that are the ones the zda only enforces or issues that come up right but this board is the one that makes it right by laws all right

**Speaker 7:** this is what i'm talking about i wasn't sure if it was a zoning board so that we're planning something that we need to revisit yeah and for one of our bylaws to make sure that moving forward we don't have that overshadowing is not only defined but taken care of right yeah because we ultimately need the definition and that definition needs to come not just from me saying well this or for him saying you know hey overshadowing is blah blah needs to

**Speaker 43:** come from right like jim was saying

**Speaker 21:** this is going to be something we're going to run into again not just with this property back

**Speaker 1:** there are very few things i'm never going to agree with you

**Speaker 34:** on we weren't calling overshadows i don't know you can't lie again but the situation was

**Speaker 6:** different sides of the street you think we have right two thousand different sides of the street you think we have all right In 2009, we found that from one acre to two acres for that purpose to partially address this issue. You're never going to address it in the village. It's just not going to happen.

**Speaker 21:** I mean, you can't address what currently exists, but for future, I know, what's overshadowed now is overshadowed, but for future development?

**Speaker 6:** Yes. I mean, that's something you can address, but really the only way to address it, I think, is to increase acreage.

**Speaker 5:** Did we enforce that up in Osmawall, too? No. Not to go to two-acre lots? No.

**Speaker 1:** You can. It's under the approved building laws from the 1970s, 60s.

**Speaker 6:** That is first development. I mean, there's a lot of houses right here in the village that sit on just over half an acre.

**Speaker 21:** I mean, what is, is. What exists, exists.

**Speaker 7:** I'm just saying. I have a piece of land that sits under an acre, under two, well, under two acres, just, just off the development. But I can't build that for anybody that's listening. I can't build that. But anyway.

**Speaker 21:** You can add on. Because what other purpose was it for the three, I don't know, what was the purpose for us making a decision for the division of three lots? What was the purpose of it coming to us to do the three lots?

**Speaker 5:** Why can't you?

**Speaker 6:** I was going to do some lots. On the whole situation. And I've read 7.2, like, I don't know.

**Speaker 21:** But she said not to consider the buildings. So why when you're subdividing, just subdividing the land, two definitely decide, but three, we decide, but we have to make the same decision as her anyway. It makes no sense to me. Yeah, I got it. I feel like there's a problem with the bylaws. Or a lack of a bylaw. Because I've been combing through it trying to find. So what's over? There's a problem.

**Speaker 31:** Go right up.

**Speaker 6:** by the bylaw. I have multiple issues. What's her name? What's her name? I don't know.

**Speaker 7:** I almost had. What was I thinking like you now? I don't know. Oh, did you? Right now. I mean, they called me in and they came in and were like, we'll give you a full price for the house. So I would have had from the road all the way to the thing. And I would have been good. It wouldn't matter.

**Speaker 1:** Yeah. No, I think this is a good idea to revisit this and sort it out. This is the board to sort it out. Okay. Yeah. I was going to.

**Speaker 36:** next meeting, next agenda

**Speaker 7:** with overshadowing

**Speaker 21:** that's enough sorry to bring something else up it's been bothering me

**Speaker 7:** I'm glad you did thank you you're right

**Speaker 11:** you're absolutely right

**Speaker 6:** if you want to do something

**Speaker 41:** you have a better way of getting it

**Speaker 5:** anything I say

**Speaker 6:** I don't have a penis if you're talking if you're talking there's an argument to be had with that if you're trying to base a house if you're trying to base a town on second homers if you had another dance here we'd be standing straight up and I'm not saying I agree with this but you'd be more likely to sell lots if they were probably at 10 acres 10 acres because people can isolate themselves I agree with that there's a lot to be talked about in the structure of how you want to do this thank you

**Speaker 7:** I make a motion to adjourn

**Speaker 36:** is this the flood zone?

**Speaker 21:** who seconded?

**Speaker 6:** I had a question

**Speaker 8:** you guys made comments about maybe that the emergency management should do something maybe for that so I have a meeting coming up August 13th and I wrote down when the power's out what's done to get any generator to be able to get or help from the state and I said planning board is asking what the state would do to help getting and not the one so I will be bringing that to our meeting

**Speaker 46:** okay when we go up

**Speaker 8:** yeah perfect

**Speaker 5:** I'll continue to I'll continue to do some research

**Speaker 7:** pardon? because right now we really only have this building

**Speaker 20:** right

**Speaker 21:** and it's a summer and a winter problem really

**Speaker 5:** winter problem's a real problem like Dana said but there was the big thing

**Speaker 21:** but then the heat wave came and I realized it's all coming up

**Speaker 1:** yeah and one of the things exactly what I'm coming in a lot of people's septics need the power to pump the septic out yeah I didn't bring that up because I just thought of it while we were talking

**Speaker 8:** I don't know if any of you know a Neil Glassman gravity

**Speaker 7:** I flush my clothes

**Speaker 8:** from the team roll the tongue and join us

**Speaker 7:** so you're gravity to the river but a lot of people especially with model systems it's got to be a pump it's an ejected pump yeah I had a I had a 5,000 million dollars in the bank and I'm trying to be right about the house so I didn't want to be coming into it so I'm not saying power is important I made a motion for adjourn seconded by Dan all in favor aye

**Speaker 5:** very good

**Speaker 7:** thank you thank you

thank you thank you

**Speaker 5:** thank you thank you

thank you

**Speaker 5:** thank you thank you