---
title: "Stamford Select Board — April 18, 2024"
date: 2024-04-18
session: regular
speaker_labels: 1 cluster(s) named from the roll call and that meeting's chair in the minutes, 1 named from roster attendance, 10 of 12 clusters unnamed
voice_ids: {"SPEAKER_00":6,"SPEAKER_01":8,"SPEAKER_02":3,"SPEAKER_03":4,"SPEAKER_04":56,"SPEAKER_06":11,"SPEAKER_07":30,"SPEAKER_08":1,"SPEAKER_09":20,"SPEAKER_10":2,"SPEAKER_11":14,"SPEAKER_12":7}
duration_min: 59
audio: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y-l7U79guA
audio_source: YouTube (@jgramlin78)
minutes: https://townofstamfordvermont.org/mediaItems/Sbd%20Minutes%204-18-2024.pdf
minutes_pending: false
present: [Nancy L. Bushika, Michael G. Denault, Kurt Gamari, John Dunn]
absent: [Douglas Wright]
transcribed: 2026-10-12 (faster-whisper large-v3, CUDA; names corrected per data/name_fixes.json)
diarization: pyannote/speaker-diarization-3.1 (automated; cluster labels may over-split a single voice; unattributed paragraphs have no reliable speaker)
---

# Stamford Select Board — April 18, 2024

**Session:** Regular · **Duration:** 59 min · [Audio](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y-l7U79guA) · [Minutes](https://townofstamfordvermont.org/mediaItems/Sbd%20Minutes%204-18-2024.pdf)

**Present:** Nancy L. Bushika, Michael G. Denault, Kurt Gamari, John Dunn
**Absent:** Douglas Wright

---
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America,

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God,

indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Welcome to a meeting of the Stamford Select Board. We have a matter to discuss that is not included on the agenda. You may do so by addressing the chairperson and stating your name and address. You will notice that all our meetings are recorded and this is to aid with the summarization of the minutes. Visitors are welcome and we allow five minutes of comments per visitor and fifteen minutes per topic. Discussions will be held in a calm and civilized manner and respectful of others. Select board members present are

**Speaker 1:** Lincoln Ault

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Nancy Bushika

**Speaker 2:** John Dunn Kurt Gamari

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Could there be any adding of items? to tonight's agenda or removing of items?

**Speaker 3:** Just looking over the permit forms. I didn't put that on the agenda. I've got that on the roll business, so.

Okay, then I'll change it.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Okay. Will there be any adjustments to the agenda such as changing the order of items? We good? Hearing of visitors.

**Speaker 4:** Myra. I hope in the minutes it can state that cleanup day is happening. On May 4th from 8.30 to 11.30. Come to the school. Most people probably know about it. Come to the school. Get a donut. Get a bag. Get some gloves. Pick up trash. And can we put it on the calendar on our website? That's great. Thanks. So, can I turn it? Did you wave again or? No. Oh, sorry. Jim. I hit my other arm. Jim Brady. My arm went up.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** No. Um, so.

**Speaker 5:** So, um.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Um. Um. Um.

**Speaker 6:** Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um.

**Speaker 5:** Um.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um.

**Speaker 7:** Um.

**Speaker 6:** Um. Um. Um. Um. that approved the septic system it's a state septic system right they approve it but over channel they said you have to voice your complaint back to the town i said i don't see what they're going to do about it they said well that's our recommendation so what's the problem yeah me so the sound things that they don't know what they're doing the state says they don't know

**Speaker 8:** what they're doing i certainly don't know what they're doing i read your letter and i didn't

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** see where it said subdivided letter are they subdivided or are they even okay well yeah

**Speaker 8:** it says off the private road yeah it's b1 or a1

**Speaker 6:** yeah 9 a 9 a and 9 b i i think and the second one doing is like an accessory building they're doing where they're going to put another building up on three acres instead of four acres they're going to share it on the on three acres and they're going to expand the septic system and share the septic system and tap into the well upstairs on the lot before them they're going to break it off into two acres because you only you can have

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** two acres so this is all because i looked at the map too and half of the problem more than half of the property before so this is all people this is all in the two this is only inside of the road

**Speaker 6:** okay

**Speaker 9:** i've i've spoken with um both parties nothing is moving forward until the gardeners and i have a chance to talk there are a lot of issues going on with this particular proposal nothing has been submitted for an application here so right now there is no formal request for a subdivision so until that happens i mean we really i know that the riddies i appreciate that they're voicing concern over it but until an application discussing it okay except for his his portion nothing can be

**Speaker 10:** discussed because no application has been made right now to us okay well just in general any

**Speaker 11:** more than two structures they're aware of that they're yeah yeah sally uh we're talking about

**Speaker 12:** a subdivision i haven't seen any kind of transfer culture no no and you won't there's no application there's nothing there on this 70 so it's just kind of over here oh i'm saying there's nothing here in the office yet yeah

**Speaker 13:** do you have any sense what the state's talking about when they say the permitting has something

**Speaker 9:** to do with no no um i talked to i i talked to the engineer that not stand up i talked to the engineer that um actually drew the whole plan and unfortunately it's um when you You can apply to the state for any well before they even come to us. So a well or a permit or anything can go through the state. It is kind of putting the cart before the horse, and that's what I spoke with them about, really. Anything of this nature should come before us so that we can give it our blessing before he spends money doing anything that may not get approved.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Doesn't it seem like if they're asking the state for the well, like you said, shouldn't they know where their house can go?

**Speaker 14:** Yeah, it is. They absolutely have a plan that is carved up.

**Speaker 9:** But as Kirk mentioned, these two homes that they're talking about putting on this center parcel, it's totally out of compliance with our bylaws because if it was truly an accessory dwelling unit, it would have to be only a third of the size of the existing structure, which is a single-byte trailer. So it would have to be almost like a miniature cabin, a tiny home. I thought they changed it. And it would have to be, according to our bylaws, it could only be a one-bedroom efficiency. So have they started any construction? No, they've started nothing. They haven't even made an application. That's why they're...

**Speaker 15:** What's he talking about the septic system then?

**Speaker 9:** Just with the state. It just went... No shovels in the ground.

**Speaker 13:** No, no, no. Overshadowing.

**Speaker 9:** Overshadowing is the issue right now. And the way it was explained to me by the state, nobody likes it. But it hasn't been... First come, first serve. So if somebody wants it and you're overshadowing another property and it doesn't infringe upon their well, and... And... And I know, Jim, you probably were told the same thing, but it's first come, first serve. So these little lots, that's Alpenwald. Deal with it.

**Speaker 13:** Half the town is overshadowed.

**Speaker 9:** Half the town is overshadowed. Half the town is overshadowed. Yeah.

**Speaker 16:** Who was using your...

**Speaker 9:** Um, Nance. I think it's... John Wright. John Wright. He's with Nance, I believe. He's the vice president or something. Yeah.

**Speaker 6:** He's the one that did their survey. Right. I know him. Yeah.

**Speaker 9:** Yeah, he's great. I mean...

**Speaker 13:** The only thing I can think of... I think that the state's referring to when they say something to a town, they say increase your acres by a lot.

**Speaker 9:** Yeah. That's it. And this would, at this point, the way they have it drawn out, they would have to turn that center section into a four-acre parcel if they truly wanted two homes on that. And then it would have to be spaced such that it could be subdivided if necessary.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** So once you subdivide, then you don't have to do the...

**Speaker 13:** Smaller. Well, anything more than two structures off a private road. So even with a subdivision, it's on a private road, doesn't it? If it's on a private road and you don't have road frontage to a main road. Well, they do. Which is Le Chure Road in general. I mean... The private road is... This is what everyone is aware of at this point. There's a lot of lots up there that are basically 200 feet wide and 30 acres deep. So you've got a lot of long barrel lots. So the only way to access them is access roads that are parallel to the boundary. And then instead of one or two lots, you could have 12 lots.

**Speaker 9:** Well, unless you're... You know, these new planned unit development laws or bills that are in place now to decrease density could come into effect if somebody wanted to grow a putt up there.

**Speaker 13:** I mean, Le Chure Road is fairly wet, but it's also flat. You know, it could look like Chantilly Ave, Hawthorne Ave over by the airport. Right. It really could. They're long, narrow, parallel lots.

**Speaker 6:** So... I'm going to seven lots right in the road that are like that. Those strips.

**Speaker 13:** They're old, hairy, fat lots. He was notorious for making them like that. They're scattered throughout town. He did a lot of lovely surveys here in town.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Thank you, Deb. So right now, we're just... Everything's on hold? Yeah.

**Speaker 9:** Nothing has been... He hasn't applied. So there's been no application submitted. Okay. So we'll be chatting before anything to make sure that when something does go forward, it's within compliance.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Yep. Thank you, Deb.

**Speaker 17:** Thank you.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Reading and approval of records and orders. Regular minutes of April 4th.

**Speaker 2:** Motion to approve.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I have a second. All in favor? Aye. Okay. Road conditions. Dave is unable to make it tonight. But I have a question for Lori. FEMA, you're proceeding. One road is done, finally.

**Speaker 3:** One road is completely done. It's been submitted. And we're waiting payment on it. And there's five other roads that are lumped together that are in... They were in the final stages. And the girl I was working with left. And I've got a new girl. And usually these people come with their new set of forms that they want. And so it was very, very close.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** And I know it's tremendous, tremendous time consuming for the girls here that... I mean, I was here one day in the morning. I was on the phone two hours listening at the meeting. It's terrible. Okay.

**Speaker 3:** So it's in the works. And on the third road, Mill Road, we can't submit it because we're still waiting for the guardrail company to come and... Well, don't need to ask Dave about it.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** We'll do that next meeting.

**Speaker 9:** Yeah. I'm sorry. I did have something. I'm hearing the visitors, but this ties right into road conditions. It's my understanding that they have started the preliminary work on the power lines. They dropped off a couple of four-wheelers the other day. Has the town been notified because it's going to have a huge impact on Mill Road once they start working on those power lines?

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Where are they working? Beyond?

**Speaker 9:** They're going to be redoing all of the power lines behind our property. You know, so up... It's a big one. Oh, yeah. I mentioned it a couple of years ago because they got lost. And it ended up down on our property. Couldn't find their way out. So... I know. It's kind of funny.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Are they going up the...

**Speaker 9:** They'll be going up, I believe, the Forest Service Road. Yeah.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** The one right there by the high bridge.

**Speaker 9:** Yes. Right beyond it. So I was wondering, have they contacted you? Dave, I think last year when we talked about it, he knew that kind of something was going to go on. But he said normally they let you guys know. And it's supposed to. According to the people, last year, they said it was supposed to start this year. So it's going to... I mean, you know the equipment that they bring up. They have to put all the pads down. It's just...

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Lori, we haven't received anything. Nothing yet. Hmm.

**Speaker 3:** Okay. It looks like I was active today directly, but I haven't received anything.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I have anything on recycling. Yes. The emergency management. One quick question.

**Speaker 18:** Would you?

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Yep.

**Speaker 18:** I don't think Bob's not here.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** No.

**Speaker 18:** I asked Lori to send you all a copy of Dara Zink's email.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** About the training?

**Speaker 18:** About the training course. On Monday, April 29th. Right. And Dara's memo made it pretty clear the need.

**Speaker 19:** Mm-hmm.

**Speaker 18:** And we have all talked about this. John may not be familiar with it. It's a minimum to be able to qualify and sign off on the emergency management plan. And the hazard mitigation plan. And each of those two plans allow for an additional 5% compensation from FEMA in the event of a disaster. So it's urgent that we have them. And at this point, Nancy is the only one who can sign off on those plans. She's the only one that's taking the equivalent course. Some 15 or 20 years ago.

**Speaker 20:** Mm-hmm.

**Speaker 18:** So if anybody can possibly make it, it's two weeks from today. Four to eight in Bennington. Unless we've got time from eight to three.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Eleven to three.

**Speaker 21:** Eleven to three.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Eleven to three or eight or four to eight.

**Speaker 18:** But it's a super opportunity to have somebody come and give the course in person. As opposed to trying to do these online. We're traveling much further than Bennington.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Mowing bids. The bids went out with pre-bid viewing of the area is 4-24, so that next Thursday at 5 o'clock. If any select board want to come down here and meet with any of the people that we sent mowing bids to. So we can show them where to mow. And we also ask them to pick up the debris, fix the lawn. So that's next Thursday at 5 o'clock. Moving on. Joint meeting with the school directors. I emailed Erica Bailey. No reply yet. But we did set Thursday, April 25th at 6.30 or May 9th at 6.30. She has both those dates and apologized for not getting back to me sooner. Board of Civil Authority training. Finally. Marta, can I have your email?

**Speaker 22:** Sure. Because I wanted to send it to you. Yeah. Okay. Marta, M-A-R-T-A, dot, day of, jail? No. That's my middle name. Okay.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Marta Jo. Marta Jo. Anyway, it's going to be Thursday, May 2nd, 4 to 5.30 or 6 o'clock here at the town office. And that is for the select board and the Justice of Appease, Lori. The assessor, I sent him a copy. The only email I need is Tina's. You have it. Okay. I'll send it to her.

**Speaker 23:** What was that date again?

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Thursday, May 2nd, 4 o'clock. Okay. It'll be done by Zoom. We don't know how many other towns will be joining in with us. Correspondence. Sign assignment of main road parcel.

**Speaker 3:** So the town received an offer to purchase the town's interest in the waiting period for the 1.39 acre parcel on main road. Right. So the attorney's drawn up the assignment. The town wants to convey its interest. And we approved this last week, right?

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** No, this is a new one. This is a new one, isn't it? We approved it for April.

**Speaker 3:** Oh, yes. That's right. We said it was the assignment. But this came through an offer. They want it. And the assignment all of a sudden is the last meeting. Okay. Where's that? It's the one across from the Billmont store by Hazel Sack. Between Hazel Sack and the O-House and the Chains House, right? Yeah.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I know. Everybody wants it. It must be golden. How many people drive off the road there and couldn't see the roof of the car? Can't find it. Yeah. And do I own the car? No. No.

No. No. No. No. No. No.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** No.

**Speaker 18:** No. No. No. No. No. No.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** No.

**Speaker 24:** Can I have an option to sign this?

**Speaker 13:** No. No.

**Speaker 3:** No. Try it for earth on a solid water. Going wrong.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** So Mike made the motion, was there a second? Second. And they did send you the check and everything is here, right?

**Speaker 25:** Yeah, they pay cash if I have it.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** All right. So I have it. I'll just send it to us. I got it. Thank you. Yeah. Stayed up here. It goes to a couple of tax officials, they got no parallax left.

**Speaker 18:** Paranapse. Sold it to somebody two years ago who didn't pay that.

**Speaker 3:** That was it. Yeah.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Yeah. Yeah.

**Speaker 26:** Uniform municipal excess weight permit from Structural Wood Corporation.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** That's a new one.

**Speaker 3:** Somebody must be doing something in town. Is there something about delivering those roof things?

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Somebody must be building here somewhere. Any new buildings going up? Elpenwald.

**Speaker 20:** Elpenwald.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Thank you very much. Jason, take the check. That's it with correspondence? Not just the water system thing, but you probably have that too. Oh yeah, I've got it under new businesses. Okay, old business. Well, we've been working on permits. We've been working on the fee structure, the payment structure for the AO, and redesigning the permits. So, Lori, Deb, and I incorporated debt suggestions, the assessor's suggestions, a permit from another town. We combined them all into one, and hopefully there's quite a bit in here. You can see that there's a permit for the notice of building construction. That's for one small accessory building not exceeding 300 square feet or a farm building. And the only fee attached to that is the reporting fee because there's no fee. And the other one is application for building or conditional use permit. And that has all the fees attached to it. In previous years, everything was $100, whether you have a multi-family dwelling or just adding a deck onto a house. Everything was $100. So now we've kind of raised those fees because I think they were probably $100 for at least 25 years anyway. So Deb has looked at them. Lori has looked at them.

**Speaker 3:** I have a question, though. Yes. Just from last night, because it says on the building permit that you must have already gotten all your other permits, if you need a 911, if you need a driveway, and if you need a septic or water. But you were kind of looking at it like they shouldn't be doing the septic and water, until they go to the town and get the permit.

**Speaker 9:** Well, this whole, they can do the septic first. I was talking about like in the context of this subdivision and everything.

**Speaker 3:** I just didn't know if maybe we should be doing it the other way around.

**Speaker 15:** I'm wondering, where does the planning commission come into this when people want to subdivide? In the past, historically, it's supposed to go through the planning commission first. I don't know if this town has done it.

**Speaker 13:** It does. Do you do a site plan review for anything more than two shows?

**Speaker 9:** I can approve two lots. Anything beyond that goes, yeah. So, Dave, to answer your question, this would have automatically been referred to the planning commission.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** And attached to both building permits is a graph, because a lot of the diagrams come in on the

**Speaker 12:** Anapton.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Anapton. Anapton. Back of a boat. Oh, a paper bag. And hopefully

**Speaker 14:** Now at least you can draw a straight line.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Hopefully it will be easier for the AO. So we approve all the application fees, we just need to go into executive session later to finalize the AO fees. There was one question, but other than that, this is all in. The fees and applications. the worry it's a go yeah it looks good i don't think we need a motion to approve them because everything is according to our zoning bylaws they've got to follow them carolyn um this is

**Speaker 20:** regarding permits yes uh i wanted to say that um with regard to the sign permitting i know that there was a question about whether there was actually a conversation with the ao and anyone who knows me knows that i take copious notes no matter what i'm involved with i brought my original notebook with the notes that from the conversation that i had with the ao at the time and i was told that no permit was needed for the town sign i also have copies i believe you all have we all have okay i just wanted to be really really clear about that and if anybody wants to check the original dust document you're welcome to it uh carolyn on the new form

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** there is a spot for um the ao's action whether it's approved denied referred no permit needed this form will be filed in the office with a check no permit needed and the and the town is waiting the uh recording fee so it will be recorded and not just nothing verbal anymore we've got to protect the town the ao people and hopefully this will never happen again okay i also

**Speaker 20:** have a question related to that which is where's the town sign and who authorized removing it

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** we the select board authorized removing it i haven't seen where it's stored i believe it's up to the town garage but i don't know that does any i haven't seen where it is it's behind the town

**Speaker 2:** garage stand shed did they all take it back what's that um me and the dog put it down with with the town equipment uh just the two of us and personal vehicles okay and is there any plan for a town sign

**Speaker 20:** not that i know of okay so we're a town without a sign

**Speaker 4:** um does the does the select board need to uh task the planning commission with looking into changing potentially changing the bylaws is that the chain of events if that were to be an option

**Speaker 13:** absolutely sure is that something that a planning board would take up on their own

**Speaker 15:** we we haven't had our meeting yet and we have to reorganize the board with all the people that have left uh so they probably will address that or i certainly can bring it up

**Speaker 4:** but does it have to come from the select board to the planning board to request that

**Speaker 15:** i can't answer that do you guys know i don't know this i don't know at some point we need to try to

**Speaker 2:** get a sign and then after we have to apply i'll reapply how is this i mean that's a question

**Speaker 16:** oh then you can practice

**Speaker 13:** it's going to be up to the chair this afternoon

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** do you have a public hearing on your zoning on your zoning bylaws and you had your first public hearing that people can say hey i don't like this can you change it or i'd like to see this in the bylaws i think that's the process well i mean we can go ahead and put something together um my guess is

**Speaker 15:** you would have to have a town vote on it if you're going to change any of the dimensions that are in there now

**Speaker 13:** right basically you have to amend you would have to amend the bylaws and yes right yes Public hearing. Public hearing. But the select board final decision. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Right. I mean, we sign off on the. Right. Right. It goes back and forth. It goes back and forth. Yeah.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** If you, if the select board applied for another comment, it would be denied. Go back to the. Planning board, if we apply for a different dimensional sign, or if we apply for a different area, and it didn't violate as many.

**Speaker 27:** Of the bylaws, it may still be able to pass. Right. Right. The, the, the should be able to help you walk through what's.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Going to pass. Okay. Here's a different sign. We're going to take that original sign and put it in a different spot. Or if there was a plan. Yes, absolutely.

**Speaker 9:** Have you guys. Discussed possibly having municipalities be exempt from zoning as, as most.

**Speaker 28:** Towns are, we did discuss it and it seems like we're yeah. I mean, I brought that law forward under interpretation. I guess everything is for everything, but it seems like, you know, signs. I mean, I want to be for for setbacks or something like that.

**Speaker 13:** So, I got signs for, you know, the school and municipalities fire station. I mean, that makes a lot of sense. Signs that they should be. The way that most municipalities, right. But that would still have hit for our lives.

**Speaker 15:** Hi, I agree with what you're saying, but if you dig further into the statute that you talk about, they generally follow excepted towns. Right we, we put it back, we still have to follow whatever the standards are so.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** So we can go through and do it again. We can go through that bylaw. Bylaw. Bylaw.

**Speaker 29:** look we're going to follow this right you've got to get approved by the time it would have

**Speaker 15:** to be a town vote they would have to say yeah we're going to take all signs this size um

**Speaker 9:** under these things you're going to end up with the same problem if you want the sign back there you're going to send it to me it's going to get rejected it goes there it gets rejected it's going to be so you've got to solve this right so it's going to have to be a bylaw amendment that says municipalities are exempt and it goes to the town or

**Speaker 15:** alter the sign so that it meets the bylaws right right i mean i i saw no creativity at all

**Speaker 30:** of anybody trying to redesign that sign i mean that sign is not going to work on any

**Speaker 13:** kind of alteration that i can see with it unless you're just going to say

**Speaker 15:** if you cut it into three pieces and no if you make it stand forward it's exactly the work but

the sign is it stands now it's too big

**Speaker 18:** uh if you make signs exempt exactly then we're exempt from the size then if we don't they're

**Speaker 27:** not exempt from the size though they still have to follow right it's different you can take that

**Speaker 15:** sign right now and cut it in three places and put it a millimeter apart now you have three separate signs that fit dimensionally think about what i'm saying i mean that's just crazy why is it crazy because you can use the sign

**Speaker 27:** well what i would say what i would say there wouldn't be enough gap as long as there's a gap

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** the reason why i would say it was crazy is because once we do it everybody can do it yes that's the problem yes so i would rather put it in stone that says municipalities are exempt versus so the guy down the road says i'm going to put a sign up and it's going to be a mass smoking sign and he breaks up the little pieces they can get away with it and we

**Speaker 15:** can't we always try to get away with stuff that's right that's what government's up but the question becomes why are you going through this because whatever you put in to try to accommodate that sign the whole town can do it so not if it's just not exempt the municipality still has to follow the town standard you can accept it not having a permit but it's most this is where you and i

**Speaker 31:** differ it still follows town by a long standard david can you set a can you set a standard for municipal signs separate from others i can't answer that all i could all i can answer is

**Speaker 13:** what's done in vermont now the only way around the sign is that you either signs are exempt or you amend the bylaws this sign or the old sign neither of our work they're both in violation

**Speaker 32:** right this is where we are with the sign which i think it was mentioned if we brought

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** you all the way to the bottom of the slide if we brought you all the way to the bottom of the slide which i think it was mentioned if we brought you all the way to the bottom of the slide back it would be grandfather but i don't believe it will be now it's been down for too long well

**Speaker 13:** those sign standards that we have now i believe are actually bigger than what they used to be they were smaller than that right so i mean that that's an old sign was way out of

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** way out of order as well i mean we have any business comes into this town now we've set a precedence that you're not getting a sign right that's what you're going to have that

**Speaker 13:** was the original intent i'm saying i think anyway when a little whole signs got brought into the

**Speaker 33:** bylaws right it was to have no signage in time right sally can we just get a sign out there that

**Speaker 12:** says town office i mean i sit here numerous times people are walking around this building they have no idea how to get in here they don't even know this is a town office okay so if you couldn't sign out here they'll say can you put something

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** on the building you could find

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** that you can only get that thing yeah but just tell us if we have a paint on the building we

**Speaker 34:** call that art i think it's under our first amendment right now i got my spray can i think

**Speaker 13:** you've got enough on the sign yeah yeah most definitely but if everyone wants it's always creative ways to get around everything a little sign a third sign that's smaller than the original

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** two signs the bottom line is we have had enough on the sign that's right that's right there's right now we can talk about what's the solution what's the solution it has to go back to the bylaws is the only solution i see right you gotta get a permit for it whether it's little or big whether whether you're fixing the bylaws or not you must get the permit that's what we said for this

**Speaker 28:** i mean the sign can only be four by three i believe according to the bottom yeah 12 square

**Speaker 12:** right way so i thought it was three by four

**Speaker 13:** to go down the biggest the sign can be is that much bigger than that this small picture up there

**Speaker 15:** well you can put up as many as you want you can put up as many as you want that's why i've said the other side you cut it in three it's still the same sign

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** just like the lady down here's got a farm stand sign she put it on a horse and says farm stand right yeah is it did they get a permit for it

**Speaker 9:** should they or what the farm eggs and broccoli i don't know it's agricultural so you know oh yeah

**Speaker 29:** i'm not going nowhere you're exempt or eggs out of your culture yeah plus we're right on the mass

**Speaker 35:** line right no no no i'm talking about the old new brian down there yes it's movable

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** i know they're on legals there's a lot of things no meaning for me i don't know it's too limited that library sign is not

**Speaker 22:** movable that's a lot closer to the road than any other sign

**Speaker 9:** did anybody follow the accounts around to see if they're exempt yeah they are no they're not

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** okay so you and i talked to different towns can i change the subject yeah i was gonna say

**Speaker 9:** we're not going to be solving the sign tonight okay I'm not sure I am frustrated that the calendar is not ever updated on our website and I've tried to reach out to Marie I get nowhere so can we move on from maybe her I know she had good intentions but it's not we don't even know when the select board meetings are I mean nothing is planning Commission I haven't even been noted notified I'm the zoning administrator I don't even know

**Speaker 14:** when the Planning Commission

**Speaker 3:** agenda for this meeting saying emergency she couldn't do any postings and so I did put the agenda on I put it on the calendar I did a planning commission this week I saw I I did put the agenda on I put it on the calendar I did do the Planning Commission this week I saw it but I I saw it but I I saw it but I only did the bare minimum that had to get posted because i don't want to step on her toes if she

**Speaker 9:** i mean we don't have green update on there we don't have like the subsequent um select board

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** meetings just just the can we uh have laurie go back and do this it seems to work better if it stays right here at the office because she's getting the emails and forwarding them on to marie and she could just put them on and that way they'll be there that's what before marie

**Speaker 3:** did it he did it correct before marie did it people weren't happy with that and right and

**Speaker 36:** marie took it over and you're never gonna make everybody go no well it seems like there's

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** multiple people unhappy now so 50 50. 51 you win right exactly you know i think we had good intentions it's a volunteer thing it's nice to have volunteers in town but it is our website and it should be under our control i think so i mean it that's a correction i feel

**Speaker 13:** bad saying it but you know we should it's a correction under the planning board too well

**Speaker 37:** not the exhibition you're not a you're not exhibition from the select board my term expired

**Speaker 9:** but i think you're still

**Speaker 38:** still there it's still there it's automatic if you want to two two people from the select board

**Speaker 39:** can be executed so the board should vote who they want basically that's fine but does that even

**Speaker 13:** though this board elected to go down to seven members i just thought the term i just thought

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** the term was eliminated no there's still seven members of the planning board that are voting

**Speaker 40:** the ex-officio members would not be voting members right you could have a three-man board and have two

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** budgets at a time if you have two sit better than four so you're going just like

**Speaker 28:** their needs it's just advisory on there's communication between the two

**Speaker 30:** you can leave me alone you can leave me on and i guess you would have to add

**Speaker 41:** jen he was backing off unless she quit she didn't renew as energy coordinator

**Speaker 3:** but she still should be on the planning board though as an ex officio

**Speaker 42:** wasn't she ex officio because she was the energy coordinator

**Speaker 13:** no she became ex officio because uh yeah because she was the energy coordinator but that was after the fact that she left rejection right but that was after the fact that she's back yeah yeah in the plan having to out forma when we're in reason 21 right right because when we have a rule and order thereigi Renee the fact that she was already on the plane for ex-officio.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** She didn't get ex-officio because she was the energy coordinator. Now that she's not, she's not ex-officio.

**Speaker 13:** But she was a member before she was the energy coordinator.

**Speaker 15:** If that doesn't allow her to be ex-officio, it has nothing to do with it. Right.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** And a select board can have the two appointed by the board.

**Speaker 15:** Yes. Two members can be ex-officio.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** So she's not on the board of planning commission. Unless there's a resignation.

**Speaker 37:** A loss for the town.

**Speaker 15:** I think it's important that the select board has somebody that participates because that clears up a lot of, you know, unfortunately this whole sign thing would have never happened if the right people were in play, but they weren't.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I haven't been to a planning board meeting in a while, but the planning board pretty much less than visitors also speak. Yeah, of course. Absolutely. So if Jeff, Kevin would want to still go to those meetings and put her, you know, her knowledge involved, she could, but, you know, that position really is just a position that, you know, you can speak to anybody.

**Speaker 29:** I come here and speak and I have nothing.

**Speaker 15:** I mean,

**Speaker 13:** she didn't resign though. She was a valuable member of the team. She didn't resign.

**Speaker 24:** Her term expired.

**Speaker 15:** She didn't write in and say she would pay.

**Speaker 43:** She did.

**Speaker 9:** She most certainly did. She did write in.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I think that the reason why she's ex-officio is because she was on the energy court. Right. Once she, we were not on her board, which she was resigned from that, she can no longer have that position. We were not on her board,

**Speaker 13:** but she was a voting member. She wanted to be a voting member. During the whole rewriting of the zone. Did she want to be on the planning board? Yes. I made no agency because I was on the select board about being ex-officio because I didn't want to come. That's why when Jane early came back said, well, the energy coordinator has to be ex-officio too. Let's just move Jen to ex-officio. She never left the board in any capacity and her term is not up.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Her term is up on the planning board.

**Speaker 30:** Her term is not up.

**Speaker 15:** I think it is. My term was up. Was it your turn?

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Jen's term. I saw that. Was it Jen's term up?

**Speaker 13:** Well, I don't know exactly how all that works and it's not, I mean.

**Speaker 3:** Well,

**Speaker 42:** you have nine moving boards.

**Speaker 3:** You have nine numbers and she was one of them and then you moved to seven and she just became ex-officio. So she wasn't part of the seven anymore.

**Speaker 18:** Right.

**Speaker 3:** And so it.

**Speaker 18:** Did she stay ex-officio until the end of the term that she was?

**Speaker 3:** And then when she did it renew as energy coordinator, she was no longer ex-officio and by the time that we received her letter, all the appointments had been made. So.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Well, a question. To answer your bill is if a select board was on ex-officio to the planning board till 2025 but was voted out in 2024 would they remain on the planning board? No. No. So therefore it's the same incident. I'm just saying if that's the reason why she's ex-officio or she was on a planning committee.

Yeah.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Because she's on the planning committee.

**Speaker 2:** She's on the ledger, Jake. I don't know if she's kind of late and then the CRA had. Right.

**Speaker 13:** But she had said break in public meetings that she would resign energy coordinator to be a voting member of the planning board again.

**Speaker 10:** Yes.

**Speaker 13:** So. I mean, whatever. It's not like you're nowhere near herself. You can move on. Well, it is kind of important. It's just the loss of that board. It is.

**Speaker 44:** It's very important.

**Speaker 4:** I kind of feel like it is here or there. I'm sorry. Well, she's not here to fight for the position. I know. Which I wish she were but she's probably feeling kind of upset about what happened because she did send a letter and it was, you know.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Right. It was lost in the snail mail or email or wasn't received here and wasn't received by the board for our appointments.

**Speaker 4:** But it came in to Lori in the morning of the meeting. So, you know, there's a human error here which I completely believe is something we're all capable of. Yeah. Yeah. But in the face of that human error, I do think that having not heard from her that she wanted to resign and having her previously said that she was interested in being off the Energy Commission to become a voting member. I really feel like she was done a huge disservice by, you know, I mean, maybe Albie could be on as an alternate or maybe there could be some other way that her position would be maintained. That seems fair to me. That's my opinion. Okay.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I guess we're all set with that.

**Speaker 13:** I don't really know. Okay. Where do we go from here? I mean, she's not here. She's not saying she wants this position.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Right. And we have a full member, full board for the Planning Commission. If somebody resigns, whatever.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Yes. I'm not in favor of going back to the people that we did appoint. No. I'm not in favor of that. I do believe if there was a human error, you know, I guess that's, you know, it is a mistake. But, you know, the letter is free. The letters that the other members that we did appoint came in, you know, far faster than the day of the meeting. And that error probably would have been caught.

**Speaker 4:** But if your taxes are postmarked day out, they still count. I don't see that. Well, I understand.

**Speaker 45:** That's right.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** That's a qualifier, you know. Whether or not she would have got voted in over someone else, we will never know.

**Speaker 4:** Well, you know, there was one moment when discussing who got a four-year term and who got a one-year term. Kurt was pointing out that it's the tradition that unless someone resigns, that they're reappointed. You know, unless they've been, I don't know, in some way.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Most of the time, that was traditional when someone else applied for the position. Right. We've had very little, in the past, people stepping up to the plate. And now we're fortunate enough to have more than enough. So it is an issue. But, you know, that might be true.

**Speaker 13:** That might be tradition, but that's not a rule. It's not a rule. No, and it may change over time because more and more people are interested in these positions. Right. You know. And we may want to change it as a board, whatever this board is, over time, too, to be more selective against these positions.

**Speaker 15:** You can always go to the town and have the town vote for the planning commission. That would take you guys right out of it. It would be an independent board. Like many towns do.

**Speaker 29:** Electing.

**Speaker 15:** Okay. Elected. That would solve all this. Yeah.

**Speaker 39:** But, you know.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Right now, it is what it is, and we'll go forward. In our packet, Lori sent us a letter from the state of Vermont regarding a permit to operate for the Stamford Elementary School water system. For many, many, many reasons. For many, many, many, many, many years, the school has filled out the paperwork as the permit deed, and now the state wants to know, does the school own, who the owner is, the school or the town?

**Speaker 3:** They filled out it as location, but they always had the town. As the owner. As the permit deed on the owner.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** On the owner. On the owner.

**Speaker 18:** Yep.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** So.

**Speaker 46:** One water system.

**Speaker 18:** One water system.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** I know this has been going on for a while. Who owns the land and all this? I know Mr. Ben, the principal, Randy, has been talking to Lori about it, and I was in here one day, and he said, what do we do? Well, whose name is the permit in, and he said the school. Let it go. Why change it? Why change it now? Well, I guess the state maybe doesn't like it. So they send a letter. They want to know if the school owns the land. and we will have to sign the lease, say the school owns the land, otherwise we continue, say the town owns this, and then there's a whole bunch of stuff in here.

**Speaker 15:** Is that even in compliance, the water? Is it in compliance? Where are you getting the water from?

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Right there, out front.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I'm gonna tell you, this is an opinion, this is not a board's dance. I'm gonna tell you, every time the state asks questions,

**Speaker 35:** they pay attention.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** So, there's a reason why they're asking these questions. And I truly believe there's also a reason why they ask for ownership. I've gone down this road for 10 years now, arguing and looking at deeds, and I'm in belief, again, this is my opinion, educated opinion, that the town and residents own this property 100%, after everything I've looked at, 100%. There is a law in place that the school has the rights for the operational part of the school, they're, for more like safety reasons than anything.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** And maintenance and all of that, yeah.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** If we have these joint meetings ever, we can discuss this some more, I would love to transfer the maintenance and permits to the town. It doesn't cost the townspeople any more money, whether you buy it from here or here. A matter of fact, my understanding is, our dollar goes farther on the town side. It's a no-brainer if you look at it as a business thing. Why are we playing this game, and why are we arguing about the whole of this? Let's set this in stone at a meeting and say, yes, we agree, school board and town, and the town of Stamford, the residents own this property, therefore, when we pull a permit, we tell the state, we're the permit for me. But if they, you know, I know they're gonna say, well, is this water good? Is this gonna be a liability? So, why are they asking us now?

**Speaker 35:** Right.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** That's why, why are they asking us?

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Because there's a reason why, they're gonna come back and say something. Right on the heels of the ocean. Yeah, and there's also turmoil within the school union, I guess you would call it, well, supervisor union, right? There's problems already, we know that. Things are going on behind the scenes that they're doing all these executive sessions and emergency meetings, there's problems, and I truly believe that the state wants to merge, they want to save money, they want to merge schools, and if they own this, what next? What happens to the us? What happens to this building? Does it, can we lease it? Do they charge us rent? rent, do they bump it up, do they kick us out? Force consolidation, they'll probably use it for something. We need, and if we have to create a lease, we create a lease with one dollar. You know, that's all you have to do. But I think we should really push Erica and the board to have these joint meetings. Get going on this, we've been talking about it for a long time, and I know COVID kinda messed it up. Before COVID, we were talking about this. You know, we bought windows, and it cost us more money because we went through the school, you know? Our taxes don't go as far, let's do this. Stop kicking it down the road. You know, what's that for me? Yep. And I truly, truly, I would tell the state, I mean, if the principal wants to talk, I'd talk to him and tell him, let's tell the state with the town hall and this.

**Speaker 36:** Why didn't they ask us this last year

**Speaker 47:** when they tested the water?

**Speaker 3:** I think the water permit comes up every so often, and it's time for renewal, and they've done all their things.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Isn't it a known fact that there's water problems in the school? Didn't they have on their agenda, a couple meetings ago, maybe 10 meetings ago or something, that there were some issues with the water, and they wanted to get a system in here to clean the water when, you know, I told them, it's, you know, I told them, it's, you know, I told them, it's, you know, I told them, it's, you know, it's, you know, it only came up, it failed in one bathroom. It's not the water, it's the pipes in the bathroom. You know, it made sense.

**Speaker 3:** Yeah, and the principal would like to have the permit issued and would like to just leave everything the way it is and move forward, and he responded to the state and said that, and so then she reached out to us to confirm that we're in agreement with that as well.

**Speaker 22:** Agreed.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** It just said it doesn't have, please notice that the permit to operate does not have to be, you know, it does not have an expiration date. Although the permit to operate will be amended by this division as deemed necessary over time. That's kind of an open thing. Who does the amendment? Well, that's kind of an open thing. The state. Yeah. The state, oh.

**Speaker 18:** But if you agree to put it forward as it's been, then they're not amending anything.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** At this time.

**Speaker 26:** Right, right.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** So we have a problem doing that.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** He did the way it is.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** But I also want to, during this joint meeting, I want to. Do you agree with Stamford? No. Set this in stone. If you read the deeds, every deed says, how much Stamford, resident of Stamford, is that three deeds?

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** Inhabitants of the town of Stamford?

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Yeah. So, I mean, it doesn't say school anywhere on there. No, it's the resident's building.

**Speaker 18:** Get rid of this one thing and go on.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** Yeah.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** So I don't think we have to do anything, or you can write back and say it's the town of Stamford. Yeah, agreed. Keep it as it always is, town of Stamford. And you agree? Confirm. Confirm. There's a problem we need to deal with, whether it's a school that deals with it or. Exactly. It's got to be dealt with if there is a problem.

**Michael G. Denault (inferred):** I don't want to let, it just doesn't make sense if we say anywhere in history, anywhere going forward, oh, the school owns that. And all of a sudden, there goes the practice. The only thing we're talking about, joining out of . Really, we're going to be members of the Northern Berkshire School District. Yeah. Where's the practice going? If they. If they decide to close the school down, which one do you want to close down? Ours. Do they sell the property?

**Speaker 13:** It's a victimized uneducation. Yeah. Okay.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** And I have one more thing in the new business that's, we attended a webinar yesterday on the open meeting law. Laurie was there. Lisa attended as a planning commission. I don't know, Deb, were you able to get on? I wasn't, no. Basically, the way, well, I took out of it is that we're doing everything we're supposed to be doing. So I think we're in compliance. I don't think there was anything that we should change. And just that, I saw the hammer there. But we've been pretty good lately, so. Any other new business, Laurie? New business board. I would like to make a motion to go into executive session. Second. All in favor? Yes. And let's vote. Second. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Aye. Opposed? Aye. Opposed? Aye. Opposed? Aye. Opposed? Aye. Opposed? Aye. Opposed? Aye.

Opposed? Aye. Aye. All right.

**Nancy L. Bushika (Chair):** And the motion to, to go into executive session is for, the motion to go into executive session to discuss tax sale and personnel matter. So, first, Sally I think will be asking the person to come in.

I'm second. No.

**Speaker 9:** lift the floor, lift the seats... Okay, good. Thank you.